Something very fishy is going on, and I would bet that most people don't even know about it. What exactly is the ObamaTrade bill about, and more confusing, why are republicans supporting it?
Much of this is about the Trans-Pacific Partnership deal.
What is going on and why is it being pushed so much? I've seen evidence that most in congress haven't even read the bill, yet they will be voting on it. I guess that they need to "vote for the bill to find out what's in it".
Something about this stinks to high heaven.
If y'all want to worry about a new world government, this is it. Puts corporate interests ahead of literally everything else.
Quote:If y'all want to worry about a new world government, this is it. Puts corporate interests ahead of literally everything else.
From what I understand, it goes much farther than that. It would give The President much more authority that would by-pass congress and thus circumvent our laws. What is both questionable and disturbing is why are so many republicans supporting this?
I don't see it like you are seeing it, that being "putting corporate interests above anything else". I suspect that something very wrong and very dangerous is going on here.
There's nothing good about it that I can see.
Nothing will change until we demand change in Washington. Vote them out.
The only thing I can imagine is that they are conceding (that's the extreme left's term for compromise) and (just like Bush did) signing on for 80% of things they shouldn't just to get the 20% of things they really want in the bill.
Maybe the thinking is that what 0bama gets now, a conservative could get later should they win office and therefore may have the power to correct? If that's the case, I'm sorry... what's wrong is wrong no matter the party affiliation. The only way to "fix" such overreach is to ensure it can't happen again. But then, preventing government overreach was the pillar of our government's foundation to begin with, and look where we are today.
Bad news all the way around. Usually when democrats and republicans get behind an idea were about to get majorly screwed.
Funny this is one issue progressives and conservatives will agree on. Call your reps and senators demand a no on the tpp and for the love of all things holy tell them not to fast track this mess!
Quote:From what I understand, it goes much farther than that. It would give The President much more authority that would by-pass congress and thus circumvent our laws. What is both questionable and disturbing is why are so many republicans supporting this?
I don't see it like you are seeing it, that being "putting corporate interests above anything else". I suspect that something very wrong and very dangerous is going on here.
They're voting to fast track the negations for the TPP. The transpacific partnership has been negotiatied for a Long time now and at its core it's about corporations being able to trump national laws trough arbitration. For example a corporation operating in Japan and the United States wouldn't be subject to different laws in two different countries they would be subject to the terms ( that have been negotiated in secret) of two members of the TPP. it's essentially saying all the member states are absolving their individual laws regarding corporations. It's been pitched as a joint move to counter China but there's already rumblings if china joining the TPP in a few years.
Obama is insignificant in this mess it's a global power play and another step in the dissolution of individual nations.
Quote:There's nothing good about it that I can see.
Nothing will change until we demand change in Washington. Vote them out.
The only thing I can imagine is that they are conceding (that's the extreme left's term for compromise) and (just like Bush did) signing on for 80% of things they shouldn't just to get the 20% of things they really want in the bill.
Maybe the thinking is that what 0bama gets now, a conservative could get later should they win office and therefore may have the power to correct? If that's the case, I'm sorry... what's wrong is wrong no matter the party affiliation. The only way to "fix" such overreach is to ensure it can't happen again. But then, preventing government overreach was the pillar of our government's foundation to begin with, and look where we are today.
If he approve the fast track it only gives Obama power to accept the terms without public congressional approval. The next president would be powerless to change the terms of the TPP.
There's only one reason to fast track it, to avoid public disclosure.
Not to be all, "I'm awesome" and you are just sooooo not... But I started a thread on this like 2 months ago... LOL
Eric is correct on 99% of what he said. So I'm just gonna agree with him on this one.
The only small addition I would add is that this is clearly moving corporate capitalism into the position of power over normal working people ALL over the world. This is yet another consolidation of power by those with money and power over those that produce and provide the labor to those corporations. How can one see this any over way?
If you watch or listen news that isn't right wing (sorry, but Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh aren't on this story at all) or Corporate (MSNBC and CNN aren't on this story either) you'll see this as a major push by trans-national corporations. The corporations are the ones that are writing this treaty!!!!
So much for Obama being a socialist. This is pro-big business all the way. It's obvious why republicans are for this. What this proves to me is how clearly some democrats have also been bought up by money in politics. (Not Bernie though)
If this passes the teaparty House of Reps, oh man. I'm gonna freak out! But the teaparty has stopped everything that Obama has tried to pass. I'm not ready to go jumping off any bridges quite yet. And my pitchfork is still in the shed.
It's not capitalism on a global scale, when corporations have the power to use government force you no longer are functioning under capitalism, that's closer to fascism.
Quote:It's not capitalism on a global scale, when corporations have the power to use government force you no longer are functioning under capitalism, that's closer to fascism.
Hard to argue with that... But I think we're picking at nits at that point. We haven't seen fascism without some sort of nationalism placed on top of it in order to dupe the population of workers.
So I think you may have a point.
One thing to consider though is that this new form of corporate consolidation and it's overtake of nations is that there is no sense of nationalism involved. The only thing that matters is profits. There is not even an attempt to say this is for the greater good, or that it makes societies better. This, I think, is a entirely new thing we're seeing.
I think, that since these same multi-nationals, in essence control the media and therefore the message, they don't have to worry about any sort of grandiose lie. Of course, they always have the arguement that they are the job creators, that the money will trickle down, and other corporate talking points to threaten us with... But you know I don't buy that.
I can't think of any other reason why they really are so arrogantly going about making this thing happen under no guise of democracy.
Oh I agree this is par the course for the modern day multinational corporations. I just try and point out this isn't free market capitalism that I defend and believe in, this is fascism on a global scale and dissolution of national borders.
And they laugh when I say there's a push by the elite towards global governance.
Quote:Oh I agree this is par the course for the modern day multinational corporations. I just try and point out this isn't free market capitalism that I defend and believe in, this is fascism on a global scale and dissolution of national borders.
And they laugh when I say there's a push by the elite towards global governance.
Let me ask you this... what do you think is the way to combat big corporations from running things?
To me, without a strong and independent, federally democratic government, there's no stopping this current trend.
Quote:Let me ask you this... what do you think is the way to combat big corporations from running things?
To me, without a strong and independent, federally democratic government, there's no stopping this current trend.
At this point I don't think there is a way to combat it, that's the problem. How we got here was through the collusion of state power and corporate expansion which is why government can't be the solution when they helped create the problem.
The way to avoid this mess was to create an environment where competition kept corporations from growing to big. All corporations are not evil it's when they merged into these mega multinational corporations that all hell broke lose. It's a complicated issue but at this point the best we can do is try and slow the power consolidation.
You should look into the Sherman anti trust act. The government had the solution. The government still has the solution...
Quote:You should look into the Sherman anti trust act. The government had the solution. The government still has the solution...
But doesn't the implementation or lack of it illustrate how regardless of how much power we defer to the state they'll always be corrupted and use that power improperly.
Well, Paul Ryan just had his "
Nancy Pelosi moment". So much for the transparent government that was promised to us along with the "hope and change".
Quote:But doesn't the implementation or lack of it illustrate how regardless of how much power we defer to the state they'll always be corrupted and use that power improperly.
I hear ya. But what other option do we have? Anarchy?
Whenever a society gets to big, there will be a tendency towards corruption. But of all the government systems, democracy is the best of the worst options.
Contrary to what it may seem, I'm pro capitalism. I'm anti corporatism. There is no democracy within a corporate system, and that's what we have now.
I know the federal government gets a bad wrap, but we tried a weak federal government. It was the articles of confederation. It failed. A big country needs a strong democratic federal government. The problem is we lost our democracy...
Dare I say New World Order? Time to admit that those we all called nut jobs 20 years ago were smarter than us all along. All I have to say is when Liberals and Conservatives agree this strongly on an issue you know it is bad, bad, bad. Time to become a prepper if you have not already.
Quote:Dare I say New World Order? Time to admit that those we all called nut jobs 20 years ago were smarter than us all along. All I have to say is when Liberals and Conservatives agree this strongly on an issue you know it is bad, bad, bad. Time to become a prepper if you have not already.
As someone that believes in America and American Exceptional-ism, I sadly must agree with this. Something is not right about this bill and the whole issue. I fear that it will pass, and the result is going to have devastating affects.
Quote:I hear ya. But what other option do we have? Anarchy?
Whenever a society gets to big, there will be a tendency towards corruption. But of all the government systems, democracy is the best of the worst options.
Contrary to what it may seem, I'm pro capitalism. I'm anti corporatism. There is no democracy within a corporate system, and that's what we have now.
I know the federal government gets a bad wrap, but we tried a weak federal government. It was the articles of confederation. It failed. A big country needs a strong democratic federal government. The problem is we lost our democracy...
For the record Anarchy doesn't mean without laws, it means without rulers.............