Quote:Detroit
Yeah, what about it? You think the union workers and leadership was responsible for the design, marketing and pricing of the junk The Big Three used to produce? Only after the American consumer made it clear that they preferred products from Europe, Japan and Korea (Korea!) did the suits in the executive suites realize they couldn't coast anymore. It sure wasn't the fault of the American workingman.
Quote:Yeah, what about it? You think the union workers and leadership was responsible for the design, marketing and pricing of the junk The Big Three used to produce? Only after the American consumer made it clear that they preferred products from Europe, Japan and Korea (Korea!) did the suits in the executive suites realize they couldn't coast anymore. It sure wasn't the fault of the American workingman.
It's all about price point the American three couldn't even compete with foreign auto makers because of operating cost which gasp has a lot to do with paying union wages and benefits.
Since the auto bailout they whipped the books clean of most of the union contracts ( not arguing that was right just explaining the give and take) the domestic price points have come in line with forieng products
Quote:Detroit
Then why is a Mexican manufactured Chevy the same price as one made in Detroit?
Adam & Eric,
You're both right. I followed GM very closely in '08, speculating on the senior debt before the govt bailout
. No doubt, the UAW got (dare I say coerced through strikes) GM management to sign off on the "Cadillac" of retirement benefit plans which lead to high labor costs. However, management made blunder after blunder for years regarding auto financing, rebates, inferior products, that the recession was just the proverbial straw.
Quote:Yeah, what about it? You think the union workers and leadership was responsible for the design, marketing and pricing of the junk The Big Three used to produce? Only after the American consumer made it clear that they preferred products from Europe, Japan and Korea (Korea!) did the suits in the executive suites realize they couldn't coast anymore. It sure wasn't the fault of the American workingman.
It wasn't the workers themselves, it was the unions and what was demanded by them and eventually signed off on by management. That's what caused the "crisis" and eventual bail out of the auto industry here in this country for the most part.
We can debate on the design, marketing and pricing of the "big three" when it comes to their products. I've owned (and still do) american made trucks since I was a teenager. I currently drive a 2003 Dodge Ram pickup truck with right at 100,000 miles on it. It has been paid off for several years, and I don't plan on replacing it any time soon. However, when the time does come to replace it, I refuse to buy another GM or Chrysler product so my choices fall to a few possibilities. I would buy a Ford, or possibly a Nissan or Toyota. The only reason that I would consider a Nissan or Toyota is because they finally are producing full size trucks that meet my needs.
Quote:It's all about price point the American three couldn't even compete with foreign auto makers because of operating cost which gasp has a lot to do with paying union wages and benefits.
Since the auto bailout they whipped the books clean of most of the union contracts ( not arguing that was right just explaining the give and take) the domestic price points have come in line with forieng products
One of the biggest costs and the most outrageous were the "jobs banks" that were part of the union's demands.
Here is an article from the WSJ that describes what they were all about. Along with the "jobs banks" the union also demanded a lucrative retirement plan for the workers, one that cannot be sustained if the companies wanted to stay in business.
Quote:Then why is a Mexican manufactured Chevy the same price as one made in Detroit?
See an example in my answer to Eric and Adam above. It's all about the costs associated with how much it costs to produce a product. A company isn't going to differentiate between a product made in Mexico and a product made in the U.S.. It's the same product and the price of said product is THE price.
Quote:Then why is a Mexican manufactured Chevy the same price as one made in Detroit?
I'm not sure if your serious?
Quote:Adam & Eric,
You're both right. I followed GM very closely in '08, speculating on the senior debt before the govt bailout . No doubt, the UAW got (dare I say coerced through strikes) GM management to sign off on the "Cadillac" of retirement benefit plans which lead to high labor costs. However, management made blunder after blunder for years regarding auto financing, rebates, inferior products, that the recession was just the proverbial straw.
Kia and Hyundai made cheap junk in mass for decades. Hell Kia built the optima to essentially only run 60-100k miles and then the engine would go well into the 2000's. People bought them because a new Kia was under 10k while a new Chevy or ford starts in the high 20k range.
Toyota made the best manufactured car in the Camry with the 2.2l engine from 98-04 and it was half the cost of anything comparable to pre-2008 domestic manufacturing.
In automotive it's mostly about the price point and until the bailout the big three weren't even in the same ball park.