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Quote:The truth will set you free.

 

Liberals will take your guns

Death Panels

 

Yes tell me more about the "truth". 

Quote:Liberals will take your guns

Death Panels

 

Yes tell me more about the "truth". 

 

Yes, both of those ARE in fact true. 

Quote:Yes, both of those ARE in fact true. 

hhahahaha nice.,...

 

Oh you are serious.. They took your guns and decided when you grandma should die? Citation needed for fear mongering to continue. 

Quote:hhahahaha nice.,...

 

Oh you are serious.. They took your guns and decided when you grandma should die? Citation needed for fear mongering to continue.

Chicago, New York City, Washington DC.


IPAB.


You're welcome.

Quote:Chicago, New York City, Washington DC.


IPAB.


You're welcome.

Not a death panel....

 

Wouldn't a conservative argue that communities/cities/states have the rights to impose laws desired by their people?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/20...anel-myth/

Quote:Not a death panel....


Wouldn't a conservative argue that communities/cities/states have the rights to impose laws desired by their people?

Death Panel is the appropriate nomenclature for the group who will decide whether or not you will get your care when the question is between cost and efficacy.


And , no, Conservatives do not believe that the majority can vote away an individual's inalienable rights.

Quote:Death Panel is the appropriate nomenclature for the group who will decide whether or not you will get your care when the question is between cost and efficacy.


And , no, Conservatives do not believe that the majority can vote away an individual's inalienable rights.

Funny seeing as there are conservatives on this board that have disagreed with this exact statement.


You can call it a death panel of you like. Sarah Palin coined that phrase not because it was accurate in any way but because it drives the fervor and fear in the base of the party. Clearly you like to repeat said rhetoric even though its factually not true at all so I guess it worked.


You know who really decided whether people got treatment or not based on cost benefit matrices? Your beloved insurance companies.

Quote:Funny seeing as there are conservatives on this board that have disagreed with this exact statement.


You can call it a death panel of you like. Sarah Palin coined that phrase not because it was accurate in any way but because it drives the fervor and fear in the base of the party. Clearly you like to repeat said rhetoric even though its factually not true at all so I guess it worked.


You know who really decided whether people got treatment or not based on cost benefit matrices? Your beloved insurance companies.

 

I actually have no love for insurance companies, they are my daily adversaries. What you don't understand is that the IAPB has the task of controlling health care costs. The most expensive care is end of life care. The easiest place to cut cost is to deny all non-palliative end of life care, ergo Death Panels. Check any of your beloved socialist states for their take on murdering the old disguised as Assisted Suicide. That's what's coming to America.

Quote:I actually have no love for insurance companies, they are my daily adversaries. What you don't understand is that the IAPB has the task of controlling health care costs. The most expensive care is end of life care. The easiest place to cut cost is to deny all non-palliative end of life care, ergo Death Panels. Check any of your beloved socialist states for their take on murdering the old disguised as Assisted Suicide. That's what's coming to America.

Assisted suicide is not really the same thing. Whether you agree with it or not (I don't now but maybe if I was terminal?) it's the choice of the person requesting it. Is that not the ultimate form of liberty?

 

It may be the easiest place to cut costs but just because the extreme circumstance could possibly lead to care being denied that is not the purpose of the board. It's purpose is to reduce and manage costs across the board. It's hyperbolic to claim it will decide whether the elderly lives or dies, hence why she coined the phrase and the right ran with it. It evokes fear and anger plain and simple. 

Quote:Assisted suicide is not really the same thing. Whether you agree with it or not (I don't now but maybe if I was terminal?) it's the choice of the person requesting it. Is that not the ultimate form of liberty?

 

It may be the easiest place to cut costs but just because the extreme circumstance could possibly lead to care being denied that is not the purpose of the board. It's purpose is to reduce and manage costs across the board. It's hyperbolic to claim it will decide whether the elderly lives or dies, hence why she coined the phrase and the right ran with it. It evokes fear and anger plain and simple. 

 

Assisted Suicide or flat out unvarnished Euthanasia is EXACTLY what will become the norm if we continue down this path. The ethics of it be damned, when you become a drain on resources you will be pressured to want assisted suicide and if you refuse you will find your choice of care options reduced or taken (food, water, meds, treatments, etc,). That's what always happens with statism in its many forms, those who cannot contribute are not worthy of continuing. Have a look at England's Liverpool Pathway and see what portion of their annual deaths were because of that plan. Look and see how much money was offered to facilities to meet the "targets" of the plan. It's manufactured death to reduce costs in the guise of "compassion." And it's exactly what the IPAB will bring to America.

Quote:We supported it.

 

Until the truth came out

Almost everyone supported Afghanistan. Iraq was a different story.

Quote:Assisted Suicide or flat out unvarnished Euthanasia is EXACTLY what will become the norm if we continue down this path. The ethics of it be damned, when you become a drain on resources you will be pressured to want assisted suicide and if you refuse you will find your choice of care options reduced or taken (food, water, meds, treatments, etc,). That's what always happens with statism in its many forms, those who cannot contribute are not worthy of continuing. Have a look at England's Liverpool Pathway and see what portion of their annual deaths were because of that plan. Look and see how much money was offered to facilities to meet the "targets" of the plan. It's manufactured death to reduce costs in the guise of "compassion." And it's exactly what the IPAB will bring to America.

Is their a difference between cannot contribute and do not contribute? 

 

This is purely conjecture based on fear. 

Quote:Is their a difference between cannot contribute and do not contribute? 

 

Logically, if one cannot contribute one does not contribute, but there are those who can contribute but do not.


 

EDIT: To the death panel members, that's my contribution for today.

Quote:Funny seeing as there are conservatives on this board that have disagreed with this exact statement.


You can call it a death panel of you like. Sarah Palin coined that phrase not because it was accurate in any way but because it drives the fervor and fear in the base of the party. Clearly you like to repeat said rhetoric even though its factually not true at all so I guess it worked.

You know who really decided whether people got treatment or not based on cost benefit matrices? Your beloved insurance companies.

 

If you want to discuss death panels, look no further than the VA.  That is pretty much fact.  It had/has nothing to do with insurance companies.

 

Take a real close look at how the VA health program runs.  There is your "single payer" or "medicare for all" system that so many liberals/progressives want.

Quote:If you want to discuss death panels, look no further than the VA.  That is pretty much fact.  It had/has nothing to do with insurance companies.

 

Take a real close look at how the VA health program runs.  There is your "single payer" or "medicare for all" system that so many liberals/progressives want.

I didn't evoke the Palin that would be flsprts

 

The VA is pretty much a disgrace. The ex military I know complain about it being a funding problem. I claim to know nothing. 

 

An argument could be made the by having one overall program rather than 17 different ones it would run a whole lot more efficiency. 

Quote:I didn't evoke the Palin that would be flsprts

 

The VA is pretty much a disgrace. The ex military I know complain about it being a funding problem. I claim to know nothing. 

 

An argument could be made the by having one overall program rather than 17 different ones it would run a whole lot more efficiency. 

 

I think that I deciphered your post correctly.

 

The VA, much like any other government run program is corrupt, inefficient and is an insult to many who actually served this country.  Funding is not the problem, the problem is the continuing growth of bureaucracy and government involvement.  Here is something to ponder...  with all of the problems recently reported on with the VA, how many people actually got fired?

 

Around where I work (military base) there is a common "joke", that being that once you get a government job, it's pretty much near impossible to get fired/laid off.  That's pretty much sad and true.

Quote:I think that I deciphered your post correctly.

 

The VA, much like any other government run program is corrupt, inefficient and is an insult to many who actually served this country.  Funding is not the problem, the problem is the continuing growth of bureaucracy and government involvement.  Here is something to ponder...  with all of the problems recently reported on with the VA, how many people actually got fired?

 

Around where I work (military base) there is a common "joke", that being that once you get a government job, it's pretty much near impossible to get fired/laid off.  That's pretty much sad and true.

As I said I don't know much other than the VA is a constant joke. 

 

My mother is the top secretary at the public defenders office in Duval. She complains about the awful employees and that you pretty much can't fire anyone. It's pretty dumb. 

Quote:Is their a difference between cannot contribute and do not contribute? 

 

This is purely conjecture based on fear. 

 

It's based on the government's current historical record and the record of international programs that our liberals are trying so desperately to emulate. It's not fear, it's understanding the nature of the opposition.

Quote:It's based on the government's current historical record and the record of international programs that our liberals are trying so desperately to emulate. It's not fear, it's understanding the nature of the opposition.

When it's purely conjecture then yes, it's based in fear not fact.