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Here's a snip-it on the story from as close to an objectionable stand point I could fine (admittedly it was hard to find a non-partisan write up of this story) http://www.westernjournalism.com/cps-rem...-kentucky/

 

"The Nauglers, who have ten children and another one due in four months, have chosen to live a “back to basics” lifestyle “off the grid.” The family lives in a 280-square foot wood-frame, three-walled cabin with a generator for power. They have no running water, use an outhouse with a latrine, grow their own vegetables, hunt on their land, and cook on a wood stove."

 

The background is this family has 10 kids with another on the way and they're what is refereed to as off-grid homesteaders. They own their own land outright and do not accept nor use any public utilities including (running water, sanitation, garbage collection, or electricity). Essentially they are the fringe of the homesteaders, the people that are looking to be 100% withdrawn from society, I'm not making the thread to argue for or against their lifestyle.

 

My question is at what point do you believe the state has the authority to remove children from a home? Is the lifestyle justification enough to remove children or does there need to be a form of abuse? Some people I know will argue that withholding the children from society, traditional schools (public or private) could consist of abuse in itself. I disagree with that but it's a fair argument.

 

I think this sets a horribly dangerous precedent that if the state arbitrarily decides your lifestyle is equivalent to abuse because of absence from common choices what stops the state from dictating all parental lifestyle choices? At some point will be faced with situations like Germany where it is illegal to homeschool a child?

I have no problem with those who would choose to live this way. I do think though there has to be education for the kids. Whether it be home schooling, meeting all the standards, or public/private. The kids deserve that so that they can make their own choices down the line.

Quote:I have no problem with those who would choose to live this way. I do think though there has to be education for the kids. Whether it be home schooling, meeting all the standards, or public/private. The kids deserve that so that they can make their own choices down the line.

 

There are laws in every state requiring children to attend school. The requirement is typically between the ages of 6 and 16.

 

These children are not receiving that required education. 

 

No precedent is being set. Nobody is saying it is illegal to homeschool your children.

280 sq ft THREE walled cabin?

Quote:There are laws in every state requiring children to attend school. The requirement is typically between the ages of 6 and 16.

 

These children are not receiving that required education. 

 

No precedent is being set. Nobody is saying it is illegal to homeschool your children.

 

That's not the only reason CPS is stating they have detained the children, they are arguing the parents lack of running water, sanitation, and homeschooling are all reasons to take the children from the home.

 

However as I understand it your point is that the lack of state approved education is the grounds for removing children from a home? What about children that attend non-accredited private schools, or homeschooling parents that use non-accredited curriculum. Those are not illegal whats the difference?

Quote:280 sq ft THREE walled cabin?

 

indeed they are what I would call extreme and even poverty stricken (perhaps by choice) but is being poor and refusing state assistance illegal or grounds for children to be removed?

 

here's pictures of the home

 



 

a link to their facebook with many more pictures

 

https://www.facebook.com/MyBlessedLittleHomestead

So "back to basics" includes having a Facebook page?

Quote:So "back to basics" includes having a Facebook page?

 

what's your point? they have chosen to live a different lifestyle but they still have a facebook page so what?

For the record here is the provisions of Kentucky's homeschooling laws right or wrong http://education.ky.gov/federal/fed/Docu...nfoPak.pdf

 

Clearly states the curriculum and methods are 100% up to the parents that the main criteria is notification to the superintendent and they teach children to be good intelligent citizens.

Quote:There are laws in every state requiring children to attend school. The requirement is typically between the ages of 6 and 16.

 

These children are not receiving that required education. 

 

No precedent is being set. Nobody is saying it is illegal to homeschool your children.

Yes I know this. I was speaking to the topic at hand and how the parents are choosing to raise their kids. I don't agree with them not schooling the children.

Would an intelligent citizen live in what can only be described as a hovel, by choice?

Quote:Yes I know this. I was speaking to the topic at hand and how the parents are choosing to raise their kids. I don't agree with them not schooling the children and something should be done about that by the state.

 

I agree education is important but if you read the Kentucky laws on homeschooling unless they are not teaching the children to read and write they are following the states guidelines. I'm not aware of any reports the children are going uneducated and unable to read or write.

 

The point is the children from what I can tell have not been removed for not educating the children because Kentucky really has no standards for homeschooling to speak of.

Quote:Would an intelligent citizen live in what can only be described as a hovel, by choice?

 

Sure, for some people that is the lifestyle they desire, why does that make them unintelligent?

Quote:I agree education is important but if you read the Kentucky laws on homeschooling unless they are not teaching the children to read and write they are following the states guidelines. I'm not aware of any reports the children are going uneducated and unable to read or write.

 

The point is the children from what I can tell have not been removed for not educating the children because Kentucky really has no standards for homeschooling to speak of.

If no reports out yet, and no one knows (outside of any state agency) what is going on educationally then I think the state, at the very least, should be able to go in and determine that this is being met. If not, they have grounds to stand on when it comes to removing the kids, or getting them the proper tools for the parents to educate, or to get to a school/s.

Quote:what's your point? they have chosen to live a different lifestyle but they still have a facebook page so what?

By claiming to live "off the grid" independently, they get to go to the local McDonald's and use their free wifi to use the Internet.


I wasn't expecting 10% hyprocercy.

Quote:Sure, for some people that is the lifestyle they desire, why does that make them unintelligent?

 

Seriously?

I had not heard of this story until you posted this.

 

But the father in this case has a 19 year old son who was removed from his custody when the boy was 4 years old.

 

He does not paint a pretty picture about this guy.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/free-ran...-mean-man/

 

Quote:<p style="font-family:'PT Sans';font-size:18px;color:rgb(80,80,80);">Alex Brow, 19, said he had not seen his father since he was removed from his care at age 4, but he said he feared for his half-siblings’ safety.

<p style="font-family:'PT Sans';font-size:18px;color:rgb(80,80,80);">“He’s a very mean man,” Brow said. “He likes to feel power and he likes to manipulate people. If it’s not his word, it’s no one’s word.”

<p style="font-family:'PT Sans';font-size:18px;color:rgb(80,80,80);">Brow said he did not live in primitive conditions like his younger siblings, but he claims his father physically, mentally, and sexually abused him until he was placed in foster care.

<p style="font-family:'PT Sans';font-size:18px;color:rgb(80,80,80);">“I got all the beatings, I got most of the mental abuse — there was a lot of sexual abuse towards me,” Brow said. “We had a very dysfunctional relationship.”

Quote:I had not heard of this story until you posted this.

 

But the father in this case has a 19 year old son who was removed from his custody when the boy was 4 years old.

 

He does not paint a pretty picture about this guy.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/free-ran...-mean-man/

 

Had not seen those reports yet and obviously if that's true there is abuse in the home I stand by the state to remove the children. I'm watching this case to see how it develops to me it's an interesting topic for discussion. For the kids sake I hope those reports of abuse are not true.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/free-ran...ky-family/


Some key points:

 

Some of the children also lack birth certificates and Social Security numbers, which some homeschooling advocates define as identification abuse.

There is no indication the couple complied with Kentucky’s minimum standards for educating children at home.

Social media posts indicate that other homeschooling parents in the area were uncomfortable with the couple, claiming the Nauglers hid behind the unschooling and off-the-grid movements to cover their lackadaisical parenting.

“I home school my children, (and) my children are taught the things they need to know to be successful,” the commenter said. “What the Naugler’s (sic) do is simply call it home schooling when in fact they are too lazy to actually home school them.”

Quote:By claiming to live "off the grid" independently, they get to go to the local McDonald's and use their free wifi to use the Internet.


I wasn't expecting 10% hyprocercy.

 

What does their lifestyle choice of "off the grid" have to do with them going to McDonald's? Are you suggesting the poor shouldn't be allowed in McDonald's?