Caldwell and Gus were hired to turn this team around. Both are first timers at their positions. Winning 7 games in two years is atrocious by any means. Combine that with blowout losses that could of been much worse if it weren't for garbage time scores.
Here we are after 3 drafts, 3 offseasons, and 3 years of rebuilding. It has been said there is no time table for this rebuild but now is the time for results. If it were another disaster season is it time to get a new GM/Coach? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again while expecting different results. If this team is picking near the top of the 2016 draft I hope Khan hits the reset button.
Caldwell: Has done nothing stupid in the draft or free agency but nothing great either. Marks is the closest player we have to a star so Kudos for some of the moves he has made. This is his roster so after 3 years with almost unlimited Cap space it's time to see some results.
Bradley: He was brought in to be the defensive "guru." While the defense has ranked close to dead last overall the last two seasons. Yes talent was an issue so he does have that excuse. Despite Fowler being injured this still is a solid front 4. It's time to see this defense to start to point in the right direction. We won't even discus the numerous mis managed games and horrible management of the time clock in a handful of games last season. That lays strictly on the Head Coach.
Bortles: I personally believe that Bortles is going to be a good Qb. I am hopeful this is his breakout year with an improved line and receivers. Then again I have been wrong before. Bortles showed flashes of brillance and despair. Thats expected of a rookie so year two will paint the long term picture. If there is not vast improvement the Jags may need to pick another QB.
So do you believe their jobs can be on the line following another bad season?
I'd be highly surprised if Caldwell was let go even if we only won 3 or 4 games.
To the OP...
Your post raises several questions, but I will start with one theme.
At what point, if at all, does the overwhelming paucity of talent on the roster at their arrival factor into the equation of whether to retain them another year or not?
If you don't think that the roster sorely lacked talent when they got here, to what do you attribute the bad record prior to their arrival? What would ordinarily be the effect on a team having gotten mediocre productivity at best from the ten years of first round draft picks prior to 2013?
If you agree that the team lacked talent when they arrived, how long is a reasonable time to expect the team to go from a lack of talent to playoff contention?
If the team lacked talent, is it possible Bradley is coaching well, but it isn't evident due to the many holes on the roster?
If the team lacked talent at the start but is more talented now, how much more talented? If it is significantly more talented, then why should Caldwell be in danger?
Can surrounding talent level have a detrimental effect on QB play? If not, explain. If so, is that effect exacerbated by inexperience at QB? Why would that not apply to Bortles?
I don't think there's any question that Bradley will be gone if this team doesn't get at least 6 wins (I'd argue he needs 7). I stand by Marrone being a contingency plan, so that if Bradley goes, there will be some continuity on offense for Bortles going into his year 3. Caldwell probably gets another year regardless, and since his fate is tied to Bortles, he probably doesn't want Bortles to have to learn a 3rd playbook.
The other thing that needs to be pointed out is that regardless of the talent they had when they started, at the very least the players they brought in should be improving from one year to the next. That's why a 4 or 5 win season won't be acceptable. There's absolutely 0 excuse for this team being that bad again. It's time to cash in.
If a player should improve from one year to the next, then am I correct to assume the expectation isn't to improve substantially over the course of one season?
If this is true, then isn't last year's record defensible, given the overwhelming number of rookies starting on offense?
Quote:The other thing that needs to be pointed out is that regardless of the talent they had when they started, at the very least the players they brought in should be improving from one year to the next. That's why a 4 or 5 win season won't be acceptable. There's absolutely 0 excuse for this team being that bad again. It's time to cash in.
Which you can blame on the coaching not necessarily the GM. Gus will be on the hot seat if we get 3 wins but not Caldwell IMO.
Quote:Which you can blame on the coaching not necessarily the GM. Gus will be on the hot seat if we get 3 wins but not Caldwell IMO.
Exactly. Honestly, IDK that Gus will be on the hot seat in that scenario.... I think there's a good chance he would be gone mid-season.
Quote:Exactly. Honestly, IDK that Gus will be on the hot seat in that scenario.... I think there's a good chance he would be gone mid-season.
Guessing you are assuming Marrone takes over at that point?
Quote:Guessing you are assuming Marrone takes over at that point?
Oh yeah, he'd be the logical choice. I don't think it's a coincidence he chose to come here either. I'm sure he had other assistant position offers.
Another interesting thing to watch will be Gus's game management. It's been a constant area of struggle. It's bad enough when your team isn't very talented, you can't afford to have your coach make costly mistakes as well.
Quote:To the OP...
Your post raises several questions, but I will start with one theme.
At what point, if at all, does the overwhelming paucity of talent on the roster at their arrival factor into the equation of whether to retain them another year or not?
If you don't think that the roster sorely lacked talent when they got here, to what do you attribute the bad record prior to their arrival? What would ordinarily be the effect on a team having gotten mediocre productivity at best from the ten years of first round draft picks prior to 2013?
If you agree that the team lacked talent when they arrived, how long is a reasonable time to expect the team to go from a lack of talent to playoff contention?
If the team lacked talent, is it possible Bradley is coaching well, but it isn't evident due to the many holes on the roster?
If the team lacked talent at the start but is more talented now, how much more talented? If it is significantly more talented, then why should Caldwell be in danger?
Can surrounding talent level have a detrimental effect on QB play? If not, explain. If so, is that effect exacerbated by inexperience at QB? Why would that not apply to Bortles?
Don't expect a response Bullseye.
Barring an 0-10 disaster of a start in which the team is consistently losing by 30, Bradley will not be fired during the season. Marrone was not brought in to be his replacement; he was brought in the coach to offensive line. If you think that your coach is going to need to be replaced, you don't hire an assistant coach with an eye towards him filling that role midseason. You hire a new head coach.
Nothing short of a complete disaster where the team only wins 4-5 games and is routinely blown out will get Bradley fired imo. My feeling is that this is the first year that he's had enough talent to be expected to win 6-8 games and remain competitive in most of the others, and he's got a leash that extends at least through 2016 as a result.
As long as Caldwell doesn't punch a baby or insult the 'stache, he's not going anywhere. He's taken a slow, methodical approach to rebuilding the train wreck he inherited. The only real black mark on his record right now is Joeckel. He hasn't mortgaged the franchise for a big-name free agent that failed miserably (Gerhart was comparatively low-cost), and he's made some real finds in the middle and later rounds to balance it out.
Bortles will be in Jacksonville in 2016 no matter what. 2015 was supposed to be his "rookie" season as the team's starter, but Henne's failures changed those plans. He'll be expected to show progress this year, but regardless of what happens, I think the worst-case scenario for Bortles would be that the Jags sign a veteran borderline starter next offseason to push him. I definitely don't see Caldwell spending another high draft pick on a QB.
Barring a collapse, none of the 3 are at risk this year. Bradley might be the most vulnerable of the 3, but it would have to be another 3-4 win season to cost him his job. I don't see that happening.
If Gus wants to stay with the organization and puts up 6 or less wins, then he better try for the position he does best which is with the ROAR. I don't see us doing better than 6 wins because we do have him as the coach now and he's terrible on game day. I like the moves Caldwell has made since he's been hired except for his coaching hire and feel he's stocked the roster with talent. So I dont see him not at least getting two coach hires before he's shown the door also. Blake I won't get into because he went to UCF but he didn't look nothing special and has to step up and look way better this year.
Bortles budding
Caldwell calculated
You are safe
Bradley bromidic
Bullseye, a barrister?
Quote:To the OP...
Your post raises several questions, but I will start with one theme.
At what point, if at all, does the overwhelming paucity of talent on the roster at their arrival factor into the equation of whether to retain them another year or not?
If you don't think that the roster sorely lacked talent when they got here, to what do you attribute the bad record prior to their arrival? What would ordinarily be the effect on a team having gotten mediocre productivity at best from the ten years of first round draft picks prior to 2013?
If you agree that the team lacked talent when they arrived, how long is a reasonable time to expect the team to go from a lack of talent to playoff contention?
If the team lacked talent, is it possible Bradley is coaching well, but it isn't evident due to the many holes on the roster?
If the team lacked talent at the start but is more talented now, how much more talented? If it is significantly more talented, then why should Caldwell be in danger?
Can surrounding talent level have a detrimental effect on QB play? If not, explain. If so, is that effect exacerbated by inexperience at QB? Why would that not apply to Bortles?
The language and dimensions of this post, stellar! #BeyondAFootballMessageBoard
Facepalm to yet another "heads are gonna' roll" thread.
Kudos to Bullseye for the logic - and use of the word "paucity."
Another fire Gus thread. Cool.
Quote:Facepalm to yet another "heads are gonna' roll" thread.
Kudos to Bullseye for the logic - and use of the word "paucity."
But the sky is falling bro, you didn't know?
Quote:To the OP...
Your post raises several questions, but I will start with one theme.
At what point, if at all, does the overwhelming paucity of talent on the roster at their arrival factor into the equation of whether to retain them another year or not?
If you don't think that the roster sorely lacked talent when they got here, to what do you attribute the bad record prior to their arrival? What would ordinarily be the effect on a team having gotten mediocre productivity at best from the ten years of first round draft picks prior to 2013?
If you agree that the team lacked talent when they arrived, how long is a reasonable time to expect the team to go from a lack of talent to playoff contention?
If the team lacked talent, is it possible Bradley is coaching well, but it isn't evident due to the many holes on the roster?
If the team lacked talent at the start but is more talented now, how much more talented? If it is significantly more talented, then why should Caldwell be in danger?
Can surrounding talent level have a detrimental effect on QB play? If not, explain. If so, is that effect exacerbated by inexperience at QB? Why would that not apply to Bortles?
I guess you have to ask yourself this question is last years roster or the year before that more talented than that which Jack Del Rio had most of his time as a Jaguar HC? I know many of posters created threads or posts bashing JDR but if he took the same talent against Gus would he not win the game?
Dont get me wrong I fully support GM Dave Caldwell and HC Gus Bradley as a deeply devoted Jaguars fan but I understand that they are green and learning their positions. I do feel as if mistakes were made, but I think they learned from those mistakes. I was confident that this team had a chance of getting eight or more wins this season (prior to Fowler's injury and while he is only one guy it set an omen if you will against many fans hopes for this season).
I think GM Dave Caldwell's position is safer than that of Gus Bradley whom many feel that Dave was able to bring in over the course of two years (mainly of good drafting) a better talented team than before so the pressure is truly on Gus to take this talent coach it up and turn it into wins.
We all really want Gus to be successful but this task lies with him and the men that suit up to play for him.