Quote:If our O-line improves to the point that Blake isn't running for his life on every snap, I think we'll see a much improved QB.
O-line improvement is definitely something to be accounted for. I like both moves especially Stefen. Luke Joeckel seems to be on the right track as well. Get a good 3 down back to take some of the pressure off and the outlook is positive for blake.
I never wanted to come off like I think bortles is a bust but he played badly last season, no way around the fact.
Quote:No I don't at all, its entirely too early to tell. I hope and believe he will be a good QB but at this point I cant talk about potential. I have to go on what we know as fact, and thats Blake Bortles performed poorly last year.
If we really want a competitive offense we need blake to get way better, thats the only thing thats going to take us to that next level. Adding Amari isnt going to fix blakes mechanics. ARob is a #1 receiver whether these delusional idiots wanna believe it or not, Julius is a matchup nightmare, and now we need a QB to get the ball to them.
that's the thing I think you're missing here Blake can get the ball to them and his poor played last season was based on his circumstances more so than on him.He had the worst offensive line in the league in addition 2 part of the reason why his numbers went down because he lost his best receiver in allen robinson. Also let's not forget Jedd fisch was his offensive coordinator so in my opinion Blake wad bringing a a knife in a gunfight last year. I truly think that Blake bortles is going to be a star in this league very soon so give him all the help he can get including Amari Cooper at number 3.
I was a bit worried when I heard on the news that Blake Bortles arm was tired towards the end of the season.
Quote:Nah, wrong. #1 doesn't mean anything. Just for the novice football fan.
That dude on the Seahawks was working at foot locker earlier in the season and made big plays in the Super Bowl. He made the plays when the opportunity presented itself and our receivers are capable of that as well.
Wrong again.
A novice football fan who can't understand that teams like New England build their offense without the need for a #1 needs to find a new hobby. Brady is the key there, and they have a short/mid exploitive offense. This seems to be far too complicated for you. Perhaps Madden is more up your alley.
Seahawks show that run the ball/stop the run still wins championships.
Quote:ugh, can we please stop with all this "#1 receiver" crap? There are only about 10 guys in the league right now that fit the "mold" people here claim is a "true #1".
So stupid.
This ^
The majority of NFL teams don't have a "true #1 WR." He's a really solid "x" receiver. He may not have the speed to be a prototypical x guy, but he's got all he needs to be a really good one.
What we
do have in Robinson is a guy with decent speed, very good size and
great hands.
If Blake and the O-line take a step forward he'll be very dangerous.
I’m confused…someone define #1 vs #2 and #3 for me…
Quote:
The majority of NFL teams don't have a "true #1 WR." He's a really solid "x" receiver. He may not have the speed to be a prototypical x guy, but he's got all he needs to be a really good one.
The majority of NFL teams keep looking until they find their #1. That doesn't mean it isn't important, it means they aren't easy to find. It's why the process never ends.
Quote:I’m confused…someone define #1 vs #2 and #3 for me…
Not sure if serious, but...
#1 - z, flanker
#2 - x, possession
#3 - y, slot
Quote:Wrong again.
A novice football fan who can't understand that teams like New England build their offense without the need for a #1 needs to find a new hobby. Brady is the key there, and they have a short/mid exploitive offense. This seems to be far too complicated for you. Perhaps Madden is more up your alley.
Seahawks show that run the ball/stop the run still wins championships.
Not sure what you're saying. My argument was that you don't need your perceived "#1" receiver to win and now your saying I don't know what I am talking about while proving my facts about the Patriots and Seahawks?
Your not the most intelligent are you?
I fully expect a ridiculous comment back of other random statements and how I only play Madden or some crap..
Quote:that's the thing I think you're missing here Blake can get the ball to them and his poor played last season was based on his circumstances more so than on him.He had the worst offensive line in the league in addition 2 part of the reason why his numbers went down because he lost his best receiver in allen robinson. Also let's not forget Jedd fisch was his offensive coordinator so in my opinion Blake wad bringing a a knife in a gunfight last year. I truly think that Blake bortles is going to be a star in this league very soon so give him all the help he can get including Amari Cooper at number 3.
Some of it was on other circumstances but there's also a good portion of it on him.
Quote:I’m confused…someone define #1 vs #2 and #3 for me…
Quote:Not sure if serious, but...
#1 - z, flanker
#2 - x, possession
#3 - y, slot
It's all semantics nowadays with spread sets/12 personnel becoming so popular, but traditionally:
X is the split end, and the #1 WR. He has to play on the LoS and can't go in motion.
Z is the flanker, and the #2.
Y is the slot, and the #3 as Pirk correctly said.
Quote:I’m confused…someone define #1 vs #2 and #3 for me…
It's a good question. Does a player HAVE to be 6'4", 220 and run a 4.4 to be considered one? I guess Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Tory Holt, Antonio Brown (dot, dot, dot) weren't #1 receivers? Because each of those guys were incredibly average from a physical standpoint.
Quote:It's a good question. Does a player HAVE to be 6'4", 220 and run a 4.4 to be considered one? I guess Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Tory Holt, Antonio Brown (dot, dot, dot) weren't #1 receivers? Because each of those guys were incredibly average from a physical standpoint.
#1 is stretching the defense and taking the top off by beating your man at the LOS. Jimmy Smith
#2 is finding holes in the zone, with the special ones making a living with YAC. McCardell
It's more about skill set and executing your role than measurables. But speed and winning one on ones is more important for #1s, and hands/reliability/run blocking is more important for #2.
Quote:The majority of NFL teams keep looking until they find their #1. That doesn't mean it isn't important, it means they aren't easy to find. It's why the process never ends.
Obviously every team would love to have "a true #1." And the Jags surely covet one as well. But WAY too much is made over the topic - and it's often just used to disparage many very talented receivers being discussed around here.
Until there's a clear cut #1 guy on the roster - there's little point in debating who is and who isn't. Who plays what role (x,y,z) is much, much more relevant, IMO.
Robinson has the skill set and body type to be a very productive
x receiver. That's all I am concerned about him doing.
Quote:#1 is stretching the defense and taking the top off by beating your man at the LOS. Jimmy Smith
#2 is finding holes in the zone, with the special ones making a living with YAC. McCardell
It's more about skill set and executing your role than measurables. But speed and winning one on ones is more important for #1s, and hands/reliability/run blocking is more important for #2.
Fair enough. I prefer the X, Z and Y classifications because they speak more towards role and skillset. When I hear "#1, #2, #3" I think more in terms of production, when the reality is that the Y receiver may very well lead the team in receiving yards. Probably not that common, but it happens. Look at Wes Welker. So I keep the letters separate from the numbers.
Quote:It's a good question. Does a player HAVE to be 6'4", 220 and run a 4.4 to be considered one? I guess Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Tory Holt, Antonio Brown (dot, dot, dot) weren't #1 receivers? Because each of those guys were incredibly average from a physical standpoint.
No, they don't. Plenty of wide receivers have been "#1" that aren't physical freaks, such as the guys you mentioned. However, I wouldn't call those guys "average" from a physical standpoint. Now, as far as what constitutes a #1? For me, its a guy who can run the full route tree and threaten the defense equally well. You look at a guy like Allen Robinson, who isn't the fastest guy. He's big and has strong hands though, so you can utilize him in a lot of short and intermediate routes. Think of how Reggie Williams was used the year he set the TD record here. But he's never going to be a guy who's going to take the top off a defense. Now, can you scheme him open deep? Of course. Think about the deep balls that Ernest Wilford caught off playaction. Allen's good at high pointing the ball too, so you can do some jump ball situations with him (like how Mike Evans is often used).
So to me, ARob is a perfect #2 WR. He's going to keep the chains moving, but he's not a guy that the opposing defense will have to really account for.
Now, contrast this to Jimmy Smith. Jimmy was referred to as "Lightning" for a reason. He has speed to threaten the defense deep, so corners have to give him cushion. Now, there's tons of WRs in this league who have speed, but they obviously weren't as good as Jimmy. And that's because Jimmy, as well as being fast, was also a very good route runner. There's also a reason why he's J-Smooth. I'm not sure how long you've been watching this team, but Jimmy and Mark made the out route look soooo eaaassy.
Corners gave him cushion for his speed, and Jimmy uses his route running to make his cut, boom ball is there...first down Jaguars. That's a #1 receiver, because he can beat a corner not just in one way. If they give him cushion, he's such a great route runner that he'll run an out or a curl for an easy first down. If they start to creep up to defend the out or the curl, Jimmy goes deep.
The guys you mentioned can all do this.
Quote:I’m confused…someone define #1 vs #2 and #3 for me…
No. Don't need to. It's a stupid thing that people here go nuts over. All you need to know is that we need to have WR's that can get open and catch the ball. Robinson looks to be that kind of guy, and may be very good at it. That's what matters.
Quote:Corners gave him cushion for his speed, and Jimmy uses his route running to make his cut, boom ball is there...first down Jaguars. That's a #1 receiver, because he can beat a corner not just in one way. If they give him cushion, he's such a great route runner that he'll run an out or a curl for an easy first down. If they start to creep up to defend the out or the curl, Jimmy goes deep.
The guys you mentioned can all do this.
Except it's the exact opposite now. Jamming the receiver is the en vogue way to try to stop a #1. The reason the small guys can't be true #1's (or have to be schemed like Cruz's breakout 2011 from the slot) is because they can't beat the jam regularly on the outside. It's why Lee will never be a #1, he has shown no ability to beat the jam (or make a contested downfield sideline catch for that matter).
Antonio Brown's and Odell Beckham's (or Steve Smith of old) are rare breeds that can do it regularly despite being undersized. Robinson has the size and physicality to beat a jam, and also the vertical and hands in addition to that to make a contested downfield grab, like a Mike Evans as you mentioned. In addition to the article that showed he ran an extremely impressive route tree for someone of his age and inexperience, I have no doubt Arob could be a true top tier #1 WR in fairly short order.