Quote:Yeah Suh shouldn't have been included, but my point remains. You can be considered amount the best DTs even if you don't rush the passer at an elite level.
I'm not advocating taking LW #3 overall, but I won't be too dissappointed if they do.
You can? Being able to play the run really good doesn't tend to warrant a top 5 selection. Not to say LW won't be able to rush the passer at a high level. Just in terms of draft philosophy in today's league.
Quote:You can? Being able to play the run really good doesn't tend to warrant a top 5 selection. Not to say LW won't be able to rush the passer at a high level. Just in terms of draft philosophy in today's league.
If you can't stop the run, you can't rush the passer. You need to be at least adequate at pushing interior OL into the backfield so others can get sacks and be dominant against the run, and yes, even with the focus on the passing game, it's still critical to stop the run as well
Quote:If you can't stop the run, you can't rush the passer. You need to be at least adequate at pushing interior OL into the backfield so others can get sacks and be dominant against the run, and yes, even with the focus on the passing game, it's still critical to stop the run as well
I understand that. But you can be adequate at stopping the run as long as you are "elite" at rushing the passer and warrant a top 5 selection. "Elite" run stoppers don't normally go in the top 5. You can find those guys later in the draft.
Quote:I understand that. But you can be adequate at stopping the run as long as you are "elite" at rushing the passer and warrant a top 5 selection. "Elite" run stoppers don't normally go in the top 5. You can find those guys later in the draft.
I agree that he has to at least be adequate at collapsing the pocket, basically disrupting the passer while others will get credit for the sack while being dominant against the run.
I think LW can be that, but still wouldn't advocating taking him at #3. I would think Washington at #5 would make a lot of sense as would Oakland if they didn't so desparately need a playmaking WR.
the guy had 20 sacks for crying out loud. He's 20. He can improve.
Sen'Derrick Marks had 4-5 sacks in his entire career at Auburn.
Some of you guys are laughable in your analysis.
What makes him not project to be a good pass rusher?
he's got everything you need/want, now it's up to the coaches who make the big bucks to get it out of him.
Quote:the guy had 20 sacks for crying out loud. He's 20. He can improve.
Sen'Derrick Marks had 4-5 sacks in his entire career at Auburn.
Some of you guys are laughable in your analysis.
What makes him not project to be a good pass rusher?
he's got everything you need/want, now it's up to the coaches who make the big bucks to get it out of him.
exactly
stats - check
physical measurements - check
combine numbers - check
game tape - check
but these geniuses that wanna be the outlier guys who throw crap at the wall and are right about something want to throw around these cool terms that you see on twitter... "plus pass rusher"
get outta here.
Quote:exactly
stats - check
physical measurements - check
combine numbers - check
game tape - check
but these geniuses that wanna be the outlier guys who throw crap at the wall and are right about something want to throw around these cool terms that you see on twitter... "plus pass rusher"
get outta here.
some of the people that talk about Williams not being a good enough pass rusher to warrant a top 5 pick on, are the same ones that would like to see Dante Fowler play here.
Fowler has a total of 15 sacks in his career at Florida.
He finished his regular season with 5.5 last year before getting 3 sacks against East Carolina in the bowl game.
The previous 2 years? 3.5 sacks each.
Measurables are basically the same as Ryan Davis, who is already on our roster.
Let that sink in before people start overanalyzing and criticizing Leonard Williams.
Quote:some of the people that talk about Williams not being a good enough pass rusher to warrant a top 5 pick on, are the same ones that would like to see Dante Fowler play here.
Fowler has a total of 15 sacks in his career at Florida.
He finished his regular season with 5.5 last year before getting 3 sacks against East Carolina in the bowl game.
The previous 2 years? 3.5 sacks each.
Measurables are basically the same as Ryan Davis, who is already on our roster.
Let that sink in before people start overanalyzing and criticizing Leonard Williams.
the fact is that if the information was available before seeing them play in the NFL that they would be great, we wouldnt have any busts.
time will tell but to me leonard williams looks like a monster in waiting.
I don't really care about the stat sheet for either LW or Fowler (or anyone for that matter). Sooooo many factors can distort the truth.
I think they will both be fine complementary pass rushers, but they aren't going to force you to gameplan them like a Von Miller (Beasley) or Suh (no one in this draft) could.
Quote:I don't really care about the stat sheet for either LW or Fowler (or anyone for that matter). Sooooo many factors can distort the truth.
I think they will both be fine complementary pass rushers, but they aren't going to force you to gameplan them like a Von Miller (Beasley) or Suh (no one in this draft) could.
you'd be much more liked if you just said "IMO" more often.
You don't know that. You assert things as fact, things you couldn't possibly know.
Quote:you'd be much more liked if you just said "IMO" more often.
You don't know that. You assert things as fact, things you couldn't possibly know.
Saying "I think" at the beginning and "IMO" at the end would be awfully redundant...IMO.
Isn't Seymour like 25 pounds heavier than Leonard Williams? I've seen a lot of these comparisons but I'm not really getting it.
Quote:Isn't Seymour like 25 pounds heavier than Leonard Williams? I've seen a lot of these comparisons but I'm not really getting it.
Most NFL players gain weight once they join the league.
Like I said, when you're widely considered the best prospect, people will find ways to put you down.
Quote:Most NFL players gain weight once they join the league.
Like I said, when you're widely considered the best prospect, people will find ways to put you down.
what makes you think he is widely considered the best prospect? There is a good chance he isnt number 1 on a lot of teams boards.
Quote:Most NFL players gain weight once they join the league.
Like I said, when you're widely considered the best prospect, people will find ways to put you down.
Sometimes those critics have valid concerns. I hope this isn't news to you but every highly rated prospect doesn't always pan out.
Quote:Isn't Seymour like 25 pounds heavier than Leonard Williams? I've seen a lot of these comparisons but I'm not really getting it.
Seymour was 310 IIRC when he entered the NFL, Williams is what, 305?
Their body types are similar as well (tall, lanky with long arms)
Quote:what makes you think he is widely considered the best prospect? There is a good chance he isnt number 1 on a lot of teams boards.
We can't see every teams boards but just by doing a quick google search from various websites, Williams is either the #1 rated player overall or the #1 non QB in he draft.
Obviously sometimes the "analysts" are wrong and players don't pan out. But I'm willing to bet that Williams ends up being the best defensive player out of this draft.
Just because you put it in all caps doesn't make it true. And my point about planet theory is that Leonard Williams is the athlete you would expect crib a quality dt not a rare inordinate defensive lineman. If Tyson alualu played at usc he would have been hyped the same way. If bud dupree was at florida and fowler was at kentucky how would e think about them?
Quote:Sometimes those critics have valid concerns. I hope this isn't news to you but every highly rated prospect doesn't always pan out.
Vernon Gholston comes to mind
Quote:Cool story.
Bless your little heart.