Quote:No way am I taking a Stanford linemen. Ever.
Why not?
After a disastrous start due to injury, DeCastro rebounded nicely for the Steelers.
Bob Whitfield had a good career at LT. Made the Pro Bowl.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...itBo23.htm
It's not as if you are drafting a Penn State DB or a Florida or Missouri QB.
Quote:I see where you're coming from here and I don't think the lineman thing is a good idea but I actually disagree about peat.
I think peat is actually underrated and will be a really good tackle in the NFL for a long time
We disagree on the italicized portion, but agree on the underlined statement.
you may want to give Joeckel competition, and that's fine... But I would do it in round 3 or something.
Nothing indicates Peat or anyone else for that matter would make a better LT in the NFL.
With having Lee, A ROB, and Hurns, while adding Julius and potentially having Blackmon return..I am not a fan of taking a WR that early. Improving the O line and adding a quality RB makes sense though.
On the OL, the widely acknowledged weak spot was RT. The Jags just signed Parnell, ranked 20th of 84 offensive tackles graded by PFF, to a 5 year deal in excess of $30m. Thomas at TE just signed a 5 year $46m deal, to give Blaine a new and established target in the passing game. When you look at the known other targeted FA areas on offense, Caldwell went after a starting caliber slot WR and RB. As he was not successful in acquiring those spots, I see him going after these two spots in the draft. Slot WRs can be found in the 3rd or 4th rounds, and the RB class is deep. These moves overall, along with development of the existing youth and offensive investment on the roster, should assist Bortles and the offense significantly this next year.
I see the top end of Caldwell's draft going defense, to further create a copy-cat version of Seahawks East. I see pass rusher/Leo, safety, and LB being a priority in this draft.
Quote:On the OL, the widely acknowledged weak spot was RT. The Jags just signed Parnell, ranked 20th of 84 offensive tackles graded by PFF, to a 5 year deal in excess of $30m. Thomas at TE just signed a 5 year $46m deal, to give Blaine a new and established target in the passing game. When you look at the known other targeted FA areas on offense, Caldwell went after a starting caliber slot WR and RB. As he was not successful in acquiring those spots, I see him going after these two spots in the draft. Slot WRs can be found in the 3rd or 4th rounds, and the RB class is deep. These moves overall, along with development of the existing youth and offensive investment on the roster, should assist Bortles and the offense significantly this next year.
I see the top end of Caldwell's draft going defense, to further create a copy-cat version of Seahawks East. I see pass rusher/Leo, safety, and LB being a priority in this draft.
Well if we are going the Seattle East route, I would expect them to draft their Marshawn Lynch early.
Why on earth would we draft a tackle in the 1st round?
Joeckel Beadles Bowanko Linder Parnell... Thats pretty much set in stone. The team loves Linder and Bowanko. Rookie lineman wouldn't help this team out at all right now and all our lineman are fairly young. I'm ok drafting in other rounds but not the 1st.
We need some pass rushers and playmakers. Way too many good pass rusher in this draft to pass them up. If we trade down, there will still be other positions of need available other than tackle.
I'll play along with High Score even though I doubt we go offense in the first two rounds:
1st Kevin White WR
2nd Maxx Williams TE
3rd Cedric Ogbuehi OT
4th David Cobb RB
Quote:Why on earth would we draft a tackle in the 1st round?
Joeckel Beadles Bowanko Linder Parnell... Thats pretty much set in stone. The team loves Linder and Bowanko. Rookie lineman wouldn't help this team out at all right now and all our lineman are fairly young. I'm ok drafting in other rounds but not the 1st.
We need some pass rushers and playmakers. Way too many good pass rusher in this draft to pass them up. If we trade down, there will still be other positions of need available other than tackle.
I'm not saying I'd want to draft a tackle in the first round (particularly the top of the first round) but I'd prefer not get to next off-season and realize Joeckel is bad and needs replaced, Bowanko was a 6th rounder for a reason, and Beadles is not very good. Oh yeah, and maybe that flashy RT that we got in FA that has limited starting experience didn't work out. Now we need to find 3 or 4 replacements- better dedicate next draft to the o-line.
I like the idea of continuously plugging fresh blood into that group ala San Francisco. And I don't mean late round flyers that are unlikely to ever pan out.
Again, our o-line was horrendous last year. Not sure resting on our laurels is the way to go either.
Neither is drafting high and blowing it up before you even gave them another chance to gel and grow together.
Right now we are in a classic BAP scenario.
If Leonard Williams is there, he's easily the BAP.
If he isn't, things get murky. At that point if there is no trade out, it depends who Caldwell has rated highest.
I'd assume its guys like fowler, Gregory, Beasley, ray, white, and cooper.
I'd bet money that one of those 7 guys goes at 3.
Quote:Neither is drafting high and blowing it up before you even gave them another chance to gel and grow together.
No one said anything about "blowing it up". Its called being prepared and having competition ready, rather than reacting when its too late and delaying the inevitable. This isn't something Jacksonville has done well over the years, so I don't blame you for not understanding the concept.
No we need to get younger on defense, if our young guys get better next year we will be fine. We only need a young stud RB, much rather get Pass rusher, ILB, FS before WR or OL. We had 4 rookies on the OL last year and Jockel who missed most of his rookie year, I would hope those guys get better, otherwise Dave has done a poor job.
I do agree we should get younger on defense but I'm realizing that our offense needs all the help. We are in a prime position to get an AJ Green type player in White coupled with the young guys from last year and Thomas. As much as I am a football purist, I have realized the game has changed. There used to be a time when a great defense could carry a poor offense but now it changed. If you cannot score 24-30 points consistently then you will not compete much in this league anymore. Plus our Leo depth is pretty full. People are saying we shouldn't draft o-line because we should give them a chance to develop. Well we do have 3 guys behind Clemons who are all under 27. I think we should see who emerges from that group before we start drafting replacements there.
Drafting a White gives us a legit 1 to take the top off the defense. The jags haven't had that player since J-Smooth left and we have never had a Moss caliber player in our building ever. Add Thomas to the that, now the young guys like Robinson and Lee can work underneath and play more like their style receiver.
Defense is not the problem. Offense is:
2014 ppg - 15.6
2013 ppg - 15.4
2012 ppg - 15.9
2011 ppg - 15.2
2010 ppg - 22.1 (last time we had a .500 record)
It is long over due to get some offensive talent in here. I could see Caldwell doing the same thing as last year, go offense in the top 2-3 rounds then defense 4-7 for guys who can be developed over a years time. Then the following year focus on defense in the top of the draft.
To win in this league you have to score points. Its changed now. Not saying defense isn't relevant anymore because it is. But teams aren't being held to 10 points anymore. Holding teams to 20 points now is pretty good. Getting better at creating offensive yards and TD's should be our primary focus this draft.
If they think Cooper or White is that much better of a player than any DE, than I'm okay with it, but DE is a bigger need and more important position than WR IMO. Basically, I only see them taking a WR if there's just no DE there with a first round grade on them and they have Cooper/White as an elite prospect.
I do not think they will take a receiver at 3. It has more to do with White and Cooper than anything. If there was an AJ Green/Calvin Johnson/Sammy Watkins type talent at receiver, it would be different. I see Cooper and White as lower rated prospects than those guys.
Quote:I do not think they will take a receiver at 3. It has more to do with White and Cooper than anything. If there was an AJ Green/Calvin Johnson/Sammy Watkins type talent at receiver, it would be different. I see Cooper and White as lower rated prospects than those guys.
This is where I disagree with you. White is every bit of an AJ Green caliber player. That is the only reason I'm fine with taking him at 3. This guy gets behind defenses and attacks the ball at the highest point. He is a jump ball machine. Cooper is not that same caliber so I wouldn't take him at 3 but I would not be upset if they took White. He is 1 inch shorted than AJ Green. He is faster and is built bigger.
Either way it goes I'd be fine with taking defense but I am certain if we don't increase our scoring totals it won't matter how many sacks and pressures we get.
Quote:No one said anything about "blowing it up". Its called being prepared and having competition ready, rather than reacting when its too late and delaying the inevitable. This isn't something Jacksonville has done well over the years, so I don't blame you for not understanding the concept.
you can spare me the arrogant comeback.
competition doesn't have to come with a 1st round pick.
You draft players in mid rounds and later rounds as well.
I'd be fine with going offense early, but I don't think it is as big a need as some here do. Some of the problems last season for the offense's ineptitude was lack of talent, but I feel it was more so the result of not only youth, but raw young players. In terms of long term talent on offense, I think we filled the two largest holes with our big name free agents in Parnell and Thomas. Pretty much every other spot has a potential long term starter already there. That's not to say they cannot be upgraded because they can, but there is existing young talent there.
Apparently I have more faith than many on here in Joeckel becoming at a minimum a serviceable starter at LT, so I wouldn't draft an OT in the first couple rounds unless they have across the board versatility like Erving. Although it was a small sample size, I also thought Wells filled in well at LT when Joeckel got concussed, so he could be a solid backup option there. Though I'm not sure Beadles is a true long term solution at LG, he got better as the season went on so I don't think LG is a huge need that needs addressing. The right side of OL is set with Linder and Parnell as starters and Pastzor as the backup to both. Center is the one position I think we could upgrade in the early rounds. Bowanko didn't play bad last season, but I'm not sure how high his ceiling actually is and anyways our interior OL depth is abysmal. Grabbing a true C or a G/C in the second or third round wouldn't be a bad idea. Let him battle it out with Bowanko for the starting spot and loser becomes solid depth.
WR is a position I'd be fine with taking at our current pick in the first (White) or if we end up trading down, so I don't disagree with upgrading there. I feel confident in saying Allen Robinson is a long term starter at the position, but he's the only one. Lee flashed at the end of the season, but he still needs to get better at his craft. I like Hurns as a utility backup to both outside WRs. I'd also be fine with drafting a TE on day two since Thomas is only long term player we have and getting another solid one could present mismatches.
For better or worse QB is set, so it's not even worth discussing.
While I have faith in Denard be a fixture around here, I don't think he's our feature back. I think this is the one position on offense with a glaring need, but with the devaluation of running backs as well as a incredibly deep class, this doesn't require an investment of either of our first two picks.
Currently, our entire starting offense is young with Parnell and Beadles being the oldest at 28; Julius Thomas is next at 26. I think there is a already talent on this roster that we can develop into serviceable starters should we choose to go defense in the early rounds. I'm not against supplementing more offensive talent through the draft, but I don't think it's necessary for this offense to grow. Depth is somewhat of a concern, especially at the interior OL, but that can be filled in the later rounds. I thin simply having our offense in the league for an additional year will be the biggest factor in our offense progressing. I'd rather invest our early picks in positions that need long term starters like LEO and MLB, but this team certainly won't get worse by drafting offensive players early though.
Quote:This is where I disagree with you. White is every bit of an AJ Green caliber player. That is the only reason I'm fine with taking him at 3. This guy gets behind defenses and attacks the ball at the highest point. He is a jump ball machine. Cooper is not that same caliber so I wouldn't take him at 3 but I would not be upset if they took White. He is 1 inch shorted than AJ Green. He is faster and is built bigger.
Either way it goes I'd be fine with taking defense but I am certain if we don't increase our scoring totals it won't matter how many sacks and pressures we get.
White has the measurables. But you would basically be taking him in the top 5 because of a six game stretch his final year in college. Nothing he did before, or after, that stretch makes him worthy of a top 5 pick.