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This has been a very educational discussion between you two

Quote:Not at all, there's no constitutional right to vote. The constitution simply protects minorities from being prohibited to vote based upon race, gender, ethnic background, religion and financial status. But the idea that a qualifier other than citizenship would be unconstitutional isn't correct. We already have qualifiers on voting, for example felons are not allowed to vote. I'd prefer an earned privilege to participate in elections, said privilege should be equally offered to all citizens.

 

An ID is just trying to verify you're not cast a fraudulent vote no one should be against that. We have to many ignorant votes that's the real problem, people voting because it's a team sport.

 

I'm all for proving you are who you say you are, but what makes you think that someone smarter than you wont come along and set up parameters that you're unable to meet? 

 

Maybe you need an IQ of 120? Maybe you need a Bachelor's? Master's? Maybe you need to serve in the military? Land owner?

 

Just because there are too many stupid people voting, it doesn't mean we should try to prohibit them from voting. That goes down a road that would lead to disastrous results. Besides, I think the best solution is to improve constitutional law / US history in schools. Make them smarter.

Quote:I'm all for proving you are who you say you are, but what makes you think that someone smarter than you wont come along and set up parameters that you're unable to meet? 

 

Maybe you need an IQ of 120? Maybe you need a Bachelor's? Master's? Maybe you need to serve in the military? Land owner?

 

Just because there are too many stupid people voting, it doesn't mean we should try to prohibit them from voting. That goes down a road that would lead to disastrous results. Besides, I think the best solution is to improve constitutional law / US history in schools. Make them smarter.

To be fair, Eric's proposal is a test to show you understand the basics of government (3 branches how laws are made etc...). He can correct me if I am wrong. 

Quote:To be fair, Eric's proposal is a test to show you understand the basics of government (3 branches how laws are made etc...). He can correct me if I am wrong. 

 

I understand but what are the "basics", and will that (like everything else the government does) be expanded into a more complicated exam with more stringent requirements?

Quote:I understand but what are the "basics", and will that (like everything else the government does) be expanded into a more complicated exam with more stringent requirements?

Oh I don't think it's a good idea nor that it's even legal to do so. I agree it would set a dangerous precedent that could evolve to meet the whims of locals in power. 

Eric beats this drum loud and often. I admire his persistence and knowledge of the subject, but he's wishing for something that's never going to happen.

Most countries have voter ID laws. Are they racist? That seems to be the argument I hear about enacting those laws in this country. People can't survive without some sort of ID these days anyhow. It's a foolish argument.

Quote:Eric beats this drum loud and often. I admire his persistence and knowledge of the subject, but he's wishing for something that's never going to happen.

Oh I'll admit I think it stands no chance of ever happening it's just something I enjoy discussing.


Honestly 90% of the political positions I support probably stand no chance of ever happening but hopefully by discussing them no matter how radical it at least plants seeds to ponder, and hell I just enjoy discussing them.

Quote:Not that I really have a problem with needing ID I just hope it's not difficult or expensive to get the ID.

Do you honestly know anyone that doesn't have ID? If you don't have enough money for one, you are probably on some sort of assistance, and you need ID for that. If they are the "working poor" then they will receive a pay check, how ever meager, and you'll need an ID to cash that check...

Quote:I'm all for proving you are who you say you are, but what makes you think that someone smarter than you wont come along and set up parameters that you're unable to meet?


Maybe you need an IQ of 120? Maybe you need a Bachelor's? Master's? Maybe you need to serve in the military? Land owner?


Just because there are too many stupid people voting, it doesn't mean we should try to prohibit them from voting. That goes down a road that would lead to disastrous results. Besides, I think the best solution is to improve constitutional law / US history in schools. Make them smarter.

A drivers license isn't based upon knowledge it's simply an acknowledgment you as an individual understand the laws you are expected to uphold while operating a vehicle and how the functions of traffic work.


A voters license would just be an acknowledgment that you as a private citizen understand how the government functions and the laws regarding restrictions and authorities of the different branches of government.

Quote:A drivers license isn't based upon knowledge it's simply an acknowledgment you as an individual understand the laws you are expected to uphold while operating a vehicle and how the functions of traffic work.


A voters license would just be an acknowledgment that you as a private citizen understand how the government functions and the laws regarding restrictions and authorities of the different branches of government.

 

Fair but driver's licenses aren't used to put people in positions of powers. I can easily imagine a situation where people are elected and voter licenses are gradually issued to people that meet certain criteria with it slowly changing to keep those people in power. 

Quote:Fair but driver's licenses aren't used to put people in positions of powers. I can easily imagine a situation where people are elected and voter licenses are gradually issued to people that meet certain criteria with it slowly changing to keep those people in power.

Understood but that would be abuse and corporation, if we don't want to implement systems because they're susceptible to abuse we might as well shut the whole government down.

Quote:A drivers license isn't based upon knowledge it's simply an acknowledgment you as an individual understand the laws you are expected to uphold while operating a vehicle and how the functions of traffic work.


A voters license would just be an acknowledgment that you as a private citizen understand how the government functions and the laws regarding restrictions and authorities of the different branches of government.

 

How can a driver's license not be based on knowledge when you have to pass an exam to earn one?

Quote:How can a driver's license not be based on knowledge when you have to pass an exam to earn one?

I think I made it pretty clear already, your driver license test understanding of laws and flow of traffic not general knowledge, a voters license would do the same thing.

Quote:Do you honestly know anyone that doesn't have ID? If you don't have enough money for one, you are probably on some sort of assistance, and you need ID for that. If they are the "working poor" then they will receive a pay check, how ever meager, and you'll need an ID to cash that check...

I know a person who does not have a DL. He's getting one this year. I do not know if he has another form of ID. He's one of our floater artsy types. My point wasn't that there are a lot of people without ID. I was just saying if you force people to have ID to vote and the simplest form required is not free or very inexpensive than it could be construed as a voting tax at the bare minimum and suppression at the worst if it's a huge hassle to get one. 

 

Again I have no problem with ID to vote if that is what a state wants to do but I think they need to make it easy and cheap to obtain for those without driver's license and the like. 

Quote:I know a person who does not have a DL. He's getting one this year. I do not know if he has another form of ID. He's one of our floater artsy types. My point wasn't that there are a lot of people without ID. I was just saying if you force people to have ID to vote and the simplest form required is not free or very inexpensive than it could be construed as a voting tax at the bare minimum and suppression at the worst if it's a huge hassle to get one. 

 

Again I have no problem with ID to vote if that is what a state wants to do but I think they need to make it easy and cheap to obtain for those without driver's license and the like.

You don't have to drive to get ID, in the state of Florida it costs $48 for a drivers license and $25 for state issued identification.

Quote:You don't have to drive to get ID, in the state of Florida it costs $48 for a drivers license and $25 for state issued identification.

I am aware of that, I did not imply as such but it is most common form of ID so I used it as the example.

 

Still charging for an ID to vote would be considered a voter tax which is illegal. Hence why I said the ID requirement is fine by me but you can't charge for a voter ID. 

Quote:Oh I'll admit I think it stands no chance of ever happening it's just something I enjoy discussing.


Honestly 90% of the political positions I support probably stand no chance of ever happening but hopefully by discussing them no matter how radical it at least plants seeds to ponder, and hell I just enjoy discussing them.

 

Sadly, you don't realize it hurts your cause more than it helps your cause. It's like the annoying homer that thinks every player on his team favorite team is the best in the league. When you can't view things objectively or ever critique the libertarian party, you really just make a joke out of it.

Quote:Sadly, you don't realize it hurts your cause more than it helps your cause. It's like the annoying homer that thinks every player on his team favorite team is the best in the league. When you can't view things objectively or ever critique the libertarian party, you really just make a joke out of it.

Gee who knew one guy on a message board held so much power?

Quote:Gee who knew one guy on a message board held so much power?

 

The rest of us. Unsurprisingly, you are oblivious to this.