Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I dont think we should be surprised to hear any story about us showing a lot of interest in any player going top 10.  We should be showing a lot of interest in all of them.  I'd rather we do our homework on all the top guys.

Quote:Want and Need are two completely different things....


He may not Need Mariota based off who he picked last year but if Williams is gone by pick #3 and no Trade is offered he may want Mariota to try and force a trade.

Force a trade? How exactly do you "force" a trade?


Maybe no one wants to trade for him and we are stuck with him and Blake. Waste of a pick.

Quote:Force a trade? How exactly do you "force" a trade?


Maybe no one wants to trade for him and we are stuck with him and Blake. Waste of a pick.

If it's Williams then a big gap on your big board with all the tweeners being near equal in value and this draft seen as only a 2 QB draft and people saying you wouldnt...


You call the bluff and now teams have to go through you if they want one of the top 2 QB.


It's very risky and not really advised but you don't think any of these would call? Cleveland//NYJ//Philly//STL (if they deal Bradford)

Quote:If it's Williams then a big gap on your big board with all the tweeners being near equal in value and this draft seen as only a 2 QB draft and people saying you wouldnt...


You call the bluff and now teams have to go through you if they want one of the top 2 QB.


It's very risky and not really advised but you don't think any of these would call? Cleveland//NYJ//Philly//STL (if they deal Bradford)

Maybe they don't call. Maybe they don't really like Mariota.


It's a moot point because there is no way Dave drafts a QB.

Quote:Want and Need are two completely different things....

 

He may not Need Mariota based off who he picked last year but if Williams is gone by pick #3 and no Trade is offered he may want Mariota to try and force a trade.

 

Wanting a player to be available at #3 is cnot the same thing as wanting the player himself. What you are saying is he wants to trade down.

Quote:If it's Williams then a big gap on your big board with all the tweeners being near equal in value and this draft seen as only a 2 QB draft and people saying you wouldnt...


You call the bluff and now teams have to go through you if they want one of the top 2 QB.


It's very risky and not really advised but you don't think any of these would call? Cleveland//NYJ//Philly//STL (if they deal Bradford)

 

Obviously if Leonard Williams is a stratosphere above everyone else like you say, teams are going to make calls for him whether Marcus Mariota is available or not.

I would give Dave Caldwell a standing ovation golf clap if he had the stones to draft Mariota and hold him hostage from the rest of the league. Even if they call our bluff and no one trades for him, so what? Whats the worst case scenario; having two top talents at QB? So if Bortles goes out and tears his knee on one of those God-forsaken rollouts and Mariota turns in to be a great QB, who here wouldnt be calling Caldwell a genius? 

 

Im not saying I want it to happen, but I would support it if it did.

Quote:Obviously if Leonard Williams is a stratosphere above everyone else like you say, teams are going to make calls for him whether Marcus Mariota is available or not.

You continue to not make any sense to me...

Quote:Maybe they don't call. Maybe they don't really like Mariota.


It's a moot point because there is no way Dave drafts a QB.

And what if the case plays out like last year where the pick after us gets traded...


Jags won't go QB neither will Oakland so let's wait til pick 5 to trade...To make sure they jump NYJ who might.


If it's Winston//Williams then all your Leo//Otto//OL need guys are similarly valued and no one is calling you because they have 2 shots behind your pick to jump NYJ why not force the issue?


You have to be sold that Mariota is a capable Pro-bowl caliber talent and not a Jimmy Clausen type and I'm sure that a team that really wants him would jump up to 3 and Jags wouldn't be asking more than picks 4//5 would...but for the hypothetical you could be the one team that has the QB chip if others want to play.


I can just hear//see the moaning if we get Fowler then Oak trades back to 6//12//20 and still gets leo//otto type.

All it means at this point is the Jaguars and Titans see him as a potential top five pick and deserves a look from their scouts. We will know more when Missouri's Pro Day is over 

Interest doesn't mean pick...he was an effective rusher in the claimed best conference and because of injury he couldn't participate at the combine. Obviously as a team looking for a young rusher we'll be interested......not a big deal at all

Some notes on Ray...

• NFL comparison: Chris Clemons
  
• Bottom line: It's hard to find many weaknesses for Ray. He pursues the quarterback and the ball like it's his last snap. An alpha male packaged in an explosive frame, Ray has the traits and skills to be a dominant pass rusher and potential Pro Bowler. He also has the athleticism and strength to play in any defensive front.
  
• His weaknesses as nfl.com noted are that he lacks ideal strength vs bigger OTs who might engulf him, and that he needs more pass rush moves, Both of these would seem to be negated as a weakness playing the LEO spot.
  
  
• His primary strengths just ooze LEO...
  Explosive athlete in every sense. Has elite power for his size and explodes off the line like a coiled spring. Rushes passer with extreme passion and purpose
  
• It sounds like the LEO position is what he needs as a player. I'm starting to think Ray at #1 wouldn't be so bad as a LEO followed up by Bud Dupree in round two as an OTTO.
  
  
• Shane Ray finished with 65 tackles last season for Mizzou, including an SEC-best 22 1/2 behind the line of scrimmage. -FOX
  
• shattered Mizzou's single-season record with 14 1/2 sacks to earn SEC Defensive Player of the Year
  
• A relentless motor and elite competitive drive pushed Ray to the top of Lande's defensive ends list, even though he says Nebraska's Roy Gregory looks like a better athlete.
  
• ...rare burst of speed...
  
• ...absurd explosion... -dallasnews.com
  
• He is thought of as potentially the best pass rusher in the entire draft.
  
• ...real deal as an edge rusher with quickness and overall explosion that is just silly.
  
• He draws holding calls on a regular basis because his “get-off” is so impressive.
  
• 36 explosion plays in 2014 (Sacks + Tackles For Loss)  <--who else even compares here?
  
  
• pushed inside when a team wants to run to his edge. <--not a problem at the LEO spot...neither is his 6' 2 1/2", 245 lb frame with 33 1/8" arms.
  
  
• Ray is a physical freak. He has a full arsenal of pass rush moves already.
  
• Watch this...
  http://www.secsports.com/video/11800821/...-shane-ray  <--Tebow says he runs a 4.4
  
  
• Alfie doesn't like him, and that's often a good sign.
  
  
• “I think Shane Ray has got the best first step I’ve seen,” NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock said. “His get off is just immediate. He’s really gifted that way. They even kick him inside on occasion like they used to do with Aldon Smith. He’s so quick at the snap.”
  
• “My main message for all these coaches and GMs is ‘I’m your guy,’” Ray said. “If you need somebody to go attack from anywhere on the field and be unstoppable, if I get a one on one, I’m gonna win it. You want to a guy you want to make the play on third down, go get the quarterback, strip the quarterback, I’ll go do that ...That’s what I did for my team ... when they needed somebody to make a play, or go chase down a guy with the football, I was the guy to go do that.”
  
  
  
• "I don't like him," the scout told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "People see who he is, they're going to fall off him quick. The body structure. No way in hell he can be an outside 'backer." At the moment, Ray's stock remains healthy. The NFL Media analysts who mock draft all project Ray to be gone anywhere from the Jaguars at No. 3 to the Falcons at No. 8. "Competitive, smart and reliable," the above scout added. "Wins with effort, urgency and great first step. He has a degree of stiffness. He's got to win with quickness because of his lack of size and strength." A different scout added: "He's better than the guy (Kony Ealy) from there last year. Little straight-line." -Rotoworld
  
  
  
• The scout doesn't like him because he's flat out not an OLB and doesn't have the ideal frame for a traditional 4-3 DE...this is all because he's perfectly framed for a LEO. Also, if you watched that Tebow video he's not exactly lacking in strength. That said, this scout is predicting he falls because he's not a fit for most teams, and that has me wondering if he might be there later. However, virtually every link says he's a clear-cut top 10 pick.
  
  
  
  

Quote:If they want the best edge pass rusher which is pretty much what the LEO is, then I think Ray is the pick. Fowler is more well rounded, better against the run and better in coverage.

 

 

This makes sense. You're taking Ray to be your LEO or Fowler to be your OTTO. I'd say Fowler is more of a need because they need a starter at OTTO opening day, but Ray would basically rotate in behind Clemons at first with expectations of developing into a Pro Bowl caliber LEO.

Quote:Agree.

 

I really want Williams first, then a trade down to 6 and if neither of those happen, I'll take Fowler.

 

 

I could see Williams supplanting Red Bryant and Alualu at the LDE spot, although that's just not all that critical of a need. I'm also concerned about reports of him playing too high and stiff.

One thing I don't like is taking players that could only be good Leo's and not good traditional defensive ends.

Gus might get fired and we might get a new coach with a different philosophy, and then we might be "stuck" with a bunch of tweeners

That's why scheme versatility should be very important to us as well.

Quote:One thing I don't like is taking players that could only be good Leo's and not good traditional defensive ends.

Gus might get fired and we might get a new coach with a different philosophy, and then we might be "stuck" with a bunch of tweeners

This is why I still like Williams the best...could play just about every role on the DL regardless of scheme except for DPR.

If they like ray that much then I assume they expect to get their Otto linebacker in free agency that's young......like Pernell McPhee