Quote:Inconsistent. He's a feast or famine type player which scares me away from him. Is it because he takes plays off, etc? Does he not have a motor? Watt is renowned for his insane high motor, non-stop movememnt, and just pure drive and will. He was a walk-on at Wisconsin and had to progressively work his way up the ranks, transition his body, and put on the weight. That guy is unique.
With that said. I don't see that in Williams. He's 6-5, 300 pounds. He's more of a LE in a 4 - 3 scheme and he's more suited against the run. I just don't see him being a consistent pass rusher off the edge at this level. If this team needs a pass rusher. I'd say just wait until RD2 or RD3 and start looking at guys like Kikaha out of Washington or Orchard out of Utah who are both coming off of monster seasons with more upside in the pass rushing department.
IMHO, this team mostly struggled on offense last year, not defense, and especially not in the trenches. Take the best available offensive player on the board or trade down.
This team is loaded when young offensive talent, we need to older on offense and younger on defense, Williams would be a great pick but probably won't be available.
Quote:I just started watching his game film on DRAFTBREAKDOWN and have yet to find a game he had that were even remotely good. I saw most of the ND and California games but he does not stand out at all.
What am I missing? Can someone tell me what game he has some highlights on? If he is a top 3 pick should he not be at least be making some plays? He is being pushed around bad on these game films.
This is not being negative about him just needing a answer.
Here's a highlight video for you if it makes you feel better.
[Media]
http://youtu.be/hOEQS_ucHpg[/media]
What I see when viewing Leonard Williams is a Cat-Quick 300 lb lineman who will overpower most OTs and OG. He will demand a double team on almost every play. He can play both inside or outside, so I could see the Jags moving him around to create mismatches on any given play. If Williams is taking a double team then that leaves all the other Dlineman one on one. This creates favorable matchups for Miller, Marks and Clemons and/or our new Leo. Add Davis and Branch into the mix and what Leonard Williams does to the Jags Dline is makes it better for every player on the Dline.
Now should the Jags sign a player like Akeem Ayers to man the Otto LB on passing downs, then Ayers has a free shot to the QB because of the double team Leonard Williams has created.
Williams obviously has amazing quickness and strength, especially for a D lineman. The one negative that jumps out at me when watching his highlight reel is how high he plays. He needs to lower his pad level when he gets to the pros. Leverage is an important factor at the next level and unless he improves that, he'll struggle at times. The offensive linemen he'll be going against in the NFL will be much better than the ones at Oregon State.
Quote:Man, y'all are really letting the poor guy have it for asking a question, aren't you?
Thanks and you notice nobody said look at ______________game
Quote:Thanks and you notice nobody said look at ______________game
You said you are using Draftbreakdown correct? Well just watch the three games they have from 2014 on Williams (Fresno St, Cal, Nebraska). He flashes his skill set in all of them. In addition to his skill set it must be noted that he is only 20 years old.
What I like about Williams possibly being a Jag is that presumably he can play the "Big End" position that Big Red plays. The difference is that I believe Williams can be great in run support as well as pass rush from that spot. Teams are passing on run downs than more than ever and I recall many times Big Red was left unblocked rushing the passer but that's just not his strong suit. When Big Red is on the field on passing downs it keeps a better pass rusher off the field.
What I feel Williams can become is a guy who will dominate against the run from the "Big End" spot but will also be able to convert to a pass rusher when he has to from that spot. Of course on obvious passing downs if he really is a good pass rusher you slide him inside over a guard and let him beat interior lineman with his speed/agiliy.
This is just what I've thought of course. If he's as good as people think he will be you probably just slide him in at the 3-tech and let him do his thing.
Quote:Inconsistent. He's a feast or famine type player which scares me away from him. Is it because he takes plays off, etc? Does he not have a motor? Watt is renowned for his insane high motor, non-stop movememnt, and just pure drive and will. He was a walk-on at Wisconsin and had to progressively work his way up the ranks, transition his body, and put on the weight. That guy is unique.
Not every DL is going to match Watt in that category, it doesn't mean they don't have a motor at all. I've never watched a DL that didn't at least take some plays off, even Watt does.
I don't see this being an issue with Williams. Clowney's motor was much worse especially in his last year in college, and he went #1 overall to a team that already had Watt.
If the jaguars could somehow get Williams in the first and then later get McKinney from miss st.
The defense would be insane. Sacks would go way up. The secondary would look better from the added pressure.
Williams as someone who plays in the trenches is higher value/priority and no one could bash the pick at 3.
If for some reason the Jags don't draft Leonard Williams, then I think Xavier Williams - DT - Northern Iowa could do similar things, not as well but contribute at the 5 Tech DE or the 3 Tech DT.
Personally, I would like them both to be drafted by the Jags.
Quote:If for some reason the Jags don't draft Leonard Williams, then I think Xavier Williams - DT - Northern Iowa could do similar things, not as well but contribute at the 5 Tech DE or the 3 Tech DT.
Personally, I would like them both to be drafted by the Jags.
I just found out about him recently and am now really high on him
Quote:Not every DL is going to match Watt in that category, it doesn't mean they don't have a motor at all. I've never watched a DL that didn't at least take some plays off, even Watt does.
I don't see this being an issue with Williams. Clowney's motor was much worse especially in his last year in college, and he went #1 overall to a team that already had Watt.
That's my point though. I don't think you should take a DE that high inless he's just racked up countless sacks throughout his career. And he's NOT that guy. If he was Julius Peppers or Mario Williams size wise, athletic wise, and statisically coming out of college, then sure. Take the kid. But he's not. He's more of a 3 - 4 inside type of guy or a LE that is more productive against the Run Vs. Pass. Taking a guy like that at No. 3 is foolish. I think if this team really wants a pass rusher you can get one later on in RD2 or RD3 that will be just as productive off the edge. Either that kid from Washington or Orhard out of Utah. Those guys were nightmares this past season off the edge.
Again, this team struggled on offense last year, not defense.
Quote:That's my point though. I don't think you should take a DE that high inless he's just racked up countless sacks throughout his career. And he's NOT that guy. If he was Julius Peppers or Mario Williams size wise, athletic wise, and statisically coming out of college, then sure. Take the kid. But he's not. He's more of a 3 - 4 inside type of guy or a LE that is more productive against the Run Vs. Pass. Taking a guy like that at No. 3 is foolish. I think if this team really wants a pass rusher you can get one later on in RD2 or RD3 that will be just as productive off the edge. Either that kid from Washington or Orhard out of Utah. Those guys were nightmares this past season off the edge.
Again, this team struggled on offense last year, not defense.
We struggled on both sides of the ball, and offense will likely be a focus in free agency.
Watt is a 3-4 inside guy too, and didn't have many sacks in college, about the same as Williams. Not sure if Williams is quite as athletic, but they seem pretty close to the same type of prospect.
I like Leonard William's quick hands and the attitude. We need players with a little grit. I see more upside to this guy than downside for sure. Can you imagine him together with Marks? Dang!
Quote:We struggled on both sides of the ball, and offense will likely be a focus in free agency.
Watt is a 3-4 inside guy too, and didn't have many sacks in college, about the same as Williams. Not sure if Williams is quite as athletic, but they seem pretty close to the same type of prospect.
Agreed to disagree. We struggled on both sides, correct. The one area we didn't struggle in though was getting after the QB. And, if you can fix the offense, and actually have more playmakers that keep the drives alive and don't drop third down conversions. And guys that can actually pass protect and not give up 60+ sacks, or a runningback that can generate more than 2.5 - 3.0 YPC.... maybe the defense would breath more on the sideline and Bradley and Co. could REALLY call the defense the way it should be called when the scoreboard reflects a closer contest more consistently.
Quote:This team is loaded when young offensive talent, we need to older on offense and younger on defense, Williams would be a great pick but probably won't be available.
No we aren't 'loaded' with young offensive talent. We has a possible QB of the future that needs more evaluation, a set of receivers coming off major injuries- neither of which cracked 700 yards. And we have a stud piece on the OL. We could use help at any and every position, save perhaps our starting QB. Our offense sucked last year.
There's a lot of hate coming from the replies.
While I think L. Williams is the best player in this year's draft, I don't think he's a can't-miss draft pick that some have pegged him.
He's relentless for a guy his size. Of course, everyone takes a few plays off. Being 6'5'' 300 lbs, Williams takes a few snaps here-an-there to recoup. He looks soft, and his arms are skinny for a guy his size, but he uses his strength well and there's no indication that he'll have a problem at the next level.
He has a decent variety of pass-rush moves, and he does a good job with each of them. He's great against the run. He has strong hands and its rare that someone will get away from one of his tackles.
I'd be OK with him at #3, but I'd like to trade down first.
Quote:Thanks and you notice nobody said look at ______________game
. I don't know what to tell u man. I have watched the draft breakdown videos too, and he looks great in all of them.
He was pretty much unblockable vs Nebraska. Hell, there's one series where he gets a penalty for throwing the QB to the ground, gets pissed, and gets the sack AGAIN the next play. This is just one game, but in the first series he read a screen perfectly for a 5 tech. He didn't get the tackle because they didn't run his way, but he would of blown it up if they chose to. When Nebraska ran to the outside, I never saw him get washed out of the play, plus he collapsed the o-line on nearly every one they ran toward him.
All of these games (the ones on draftbrealdown.com) have looked impressive to me. He's about as pro-ready as Dlinemen get.
Quote:That's my point though. I don't think you should take a DE that high inless he's just racked up countless sacks throughout his career. And he's NOT that guy. If he was Julius Peppers or Mario Williams size wise, athletic wise, and statisically coming out of college, then sure. Take the kid. But he's not. He's more of a 3 - 4 inside type of guy or a LE that is more productive against the Run Vs. Pass. Taking a guy like that at No. 3 is foolish. I think if this team really wants a pass rusher you can get one later on in RD2 or RD3 that will be just as productive off the edge. Either that kid from Washington or Orhard out of Utah. Those guys were nightmares this past season off the edge.
Again, this team struggled on offense last year, not defense.
Ideally, if you're picking top 3...you're getting a franchise QB, a franchise DE, a franchise LT, or perhaps a shutdown CB.
Our first two picks have been to address getting a franchise LT and then a franchise QB. Ideally, that leaves us with a franchise DE or a shutdown CB...neither of which are in this draft, IMO.
You can say the same for WR as you did with LDE. You have to go back all the way to 2007 to find a receiver taken in the top 3, and that's an absolute freak of an athlete prospect in Calvin. The closest one would be AJ green, and he too is a better prospect than Cooper.
When you factor in that the depth at WR runs deeper than DEs, then the choice to go DE over WR makes even more sense.
[quote name="JagNGeorgia" post="429918" timestamp="1422576640
He's relentless for a guy his size. Of course, everyone takes a few plays off. Being 6'5'' 300 lbs, Williams takes a few snaps here-an-there to recoup. He looks soft, and his arms are skinny for a guy his size,
I'd be OK with him at #3, but I'd like to trade down first. [/quote]
I'm glad somebody else noticed how small his arms are! They just don't fit his body at all, but I think I read somewhere he had some shoulder issues and he could not lift as heavy and as often as he would've liked. With that being said, he does have massive tree trunk of legs and that's where he gets his explosiveness from.
I would be happy with him at #3 along with Ray or Gregory. I kind of view him as a poor mans JJ Watt that can play at a high level across the d-line.
Quote:No we aren't 'loaded' with young offensive talent. We has a possible QB of the future that needs more evaluation, a set of receivers coming off major injuries- neither of which cracked 700 yards. And we have a stud piece on the OL. We could use help at any and every position, save perhaps our starting QB. Our offense sucked last year.
So your barometer for a "good" season (for a rookie receiver) is 700 yards? That's such an ignorant statement, also, I don't know of any Jaguar receiver that is coming off of microfracture surgery, an acl tear, patella tendon tear etc.., I would consider
those
major injuries, Allen Robinson's broken foot doesn't project as a "major injury", he should be 100% well before training camp starts. You're fooling yourself if you believe the Jaguars aren't going defense in the first round, the defense needs to get younger and the offense needs to mature, I'm not sure how any competent Jaguar fan can't see this. I wouldn't be at all surprised if David Caldwell spent the first three picks on defense, I expect him to shore up the offensive holes in FA.