I just can't see them going WR (Cooper) with their 1st pick at 3. They invested 2 high picks at WR last year, and lucked into a good prospect in the undrafted pool. They have 3 WRs with good potential and Blackmon as a possible luxury.
Leonard Williams would provides a significant upgrade off the left side of the line, and is, by many analysts, the best defensive player in the draft, with pro-bowl potential and a high floor.
Quote:I just can't see them going WR (Cooper) with their 1st pick at 3. They invested 2 high picks at WR last year, and lucked into a good prospect in the undrafted pool. They have 3 WRs with good potential and Blackmon as a possible luxury.
Leonard Williams would provides a significant upgrade off the left side of the line, and is, by many analysts, the best defensive player in the draft, with pro-bowl potential and a high floor.
I really don't know who we would take outside of Williams.
People say Randall Gregory, but he really hasn't impressed me much, although admittedly I haven't watch much of his film.
Another prospect that has been mentioned is Shane Ray from missouri, I really like his motor and speed, very aggressive, some people say is to short for DE (he is 6-3), if that´s the case he could be OLB, Von miller and Clay Matthews have the same length.
Quote:Another prospect that has been mentioned is Shane Ray from missouri, I really like his motor and speed, very aggressive, some people say is to short for DE (he is 6-3), if that´s the case he could be OLB, Von miller and Clay Matthews have the same length.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnipB_8Br8U
Quote:I realize that you're talking about the rookie year, but that means little. If Amari Cooper doesn't have 1300 yards/ 12 TDs his rookie year, does that mean anything?
Someone said the 6'0 argument is done after ODB, and you said it wasn't because he is an exception to the rule. I don't know where you made the point of what pick in the draft they went, or what year they were in, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about WRs not needing to be 6'5 to be dominant.
Absolutely agree. If we can get 1300/12 in ANY season from him, sign me up at #3.
I think we don't need Cooper to get better and I think we don't need a wide reciever, I also think Leonard Williams is the better player. Regardless of position or premium. My two cents
I think at this point if we don't trade down (which seems unlikely) it's Williams or Gregory.
I want Williams because of how Versatile he is. He can line up inside and outside (like Watt) where as Gregory will only be an outside rusher.
After watching Michael Bennett last night, I think that is the type of role they would ideally want Leonard Williams to play. His weight will come down a bit in a NFL conditioning program and I can see him doing well there.
Quote:I realize that you're talking about the rookie year, but that means little. If Amari Cooper doesn't have 1300 yards/ 12 TDs his rookie year, does that mean anything?
Someone said the 6'0 argument is done after ODB, and you said it wasn't because he is an exception to the rule. I don't know where you made the point of what pick in the draft they went, or what year they were in, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about WRs not needing to be 6'5 to be dominant.
Dude it doesn't matter, because there's absolutely no way the Jaguars are selecting Amari Cooper with the
3rd overall pick,
it's a ridiculous notion and frankly a waste of an extremely valuable resource. Why would they spend a top 5 draft pick on a position that is considered a strength? Especially with the inevitable return of Justin Blackmon, and even if he doesn't return, Allen Robinson, Marqise Lee, Allen Hurns, and a veteran WR is more than enough, I can't believe this is even a discussion right now.
Quote:Dude it doesn't matter, because there's absolutely no way the Jaguars are selecting Amari Cooper with the 3rd overall pick,
it's a ridiculous notion and frankly a waste of an extremely valuable resource. Why would they spend a top 5 draft pick on a position that is considered a strength? Especially with the inevitable return of Justin Blackmon, and even if he doesn't return, Allen Robinson, Marqise Lee, Allen Hurns, and a veteran WR is more than enough, I can't believe this is even a discussion right now.
The thing is...it's not. It really isn't.
Robinson showed the ability to be a solid possession receiver. Hurns showed the ability to get deep but also showed the ability to drop the easy ones. Lee showed flashes, but lacked consistency. As optimistic I am of JB coming back, there's just no guarantee that he'll be where we need him to be, much less that his issues are definitely behind him and he won't get suspended again.
I get there's tons of promise there. But that's all there is to it at this point...promise.
If Calvin Johnson was in this draft, I'd take him #3 and don't think twice (assuming Leonard Williams isn't there). I don't care if we already have Lee, Robinson, or Hurns because quite frankly...none of them has shown the ability of a true #1 WR in the NFL. In fact, our best hope of that still remains Blackmon, who is also the biggest question mark at this position.
Basically, what it comes down to it is that we're simply not a position we're we can afford to be passing up potentially great prospects just because we have OK prospects playing the same position.
That said, I'm not sure Cooper is that elite WR prospect....
Quote:The thing is...it's not. It really isn't.
Robinson showed the ability to be a solid possession receiver. Hurns showed the ability to get deep but also showed the ability to drop the easy ones. Lee showed flashes, but lacked consistency. As optimistic I am of JB coming back, there's just no guarantee that he'll be where we need him to be, much less that his issues are definitely behind him and he won't get suspended again.
I get there's tons of promise there. But that's all there is to it at this point...promise.
If Calvin Johnson was in this draft, I'd take him #3 and don't think twice (assuming Leonard Williams isn't there). I don't care if we already have Lee, Robinson, or Hurns because quite frankly...none of them has shown the ability of a true #1 WR in the NFL. In fact, our best hope of that still remains Blackmon, who is also the biggest question mark at this position.
Basically, what it comes down to it is that we're simply not a position we're we can afford to be passing up potentially great prospects just because we have OK prospects playing the same position.
That said, I'm not sure Cooper is that elite WR prospect....
I agree with this as I've already stated in a previous post, if it were Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, or even a Julio Jones I'd be inclined to take him, but Cooper isn't in the same realm physically as any of those players, and doesn't warrant a top 3 pick to a Jaguar team full of young talented receivers, I'm willing to bet my house the Jaguars take the best available defensive player, whether that's Leonard Williams, Randy Gregory, or Shane Ray, this team needs to find young talented edge rushers.
Quote:I agree with this as I've already stated in a previous post, if it were Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, or even a Julio Jones I'd be inclined to take him, but Cooper isn't in the same realm physically as any of those players, and doesn't warrant a top 3 pick to a Jaguar team full of young talented receivers, I'm willing to bet my house the Jaguars take the best available defensive player, whether that's Leonard Williams, Randy Gregory, or Shane Ray, this team needs to find young talented edge rushers.
I agree that the team needs to get younger on the DLine. But as apprehensive I am of Cooper at #3, so am I of Gregory and Ray. From a talent standpoint, I think Cooper is better than both of these guys. As such, I can't close the door on Cooper.
I need to look at Ray more, but the more I watch Gregory, the more I don't like him (Gregory)
Quote:I agree that the team needs to get younger on the DLine. But as apprehensive I am of Cooper at #3, so am I of Gregory and Ray. From a talent standpoint, I think Cooper is better than both of these guys. As such, I can't close the door on Cooper.
I need to look at Ray more, but the more I watch Gregory, the more I don't like him (Gregory)
I think both Gregory and Ray would excel in Gus Bradley's defense, Gus and Pete Carroll have shown the ability to put guys in positions to make plays, they put guys in position to win their one on one matchups, just look what Gus did with a pedestrian talent like Ryan Davis. Gregory has the size to be an every down LEO and he's dynamic against the run and pass, Shane Ray is a guy that would be used more like Bruce Irvin where he stands up on 1st/2nd down and puts his hand in the dirt on 3rd to rush the passer, both guys (Imo) are worth of the pick, Leonard Williams is the guy I want but I don't think he'll be available at 3.
Quote:I think both Gregory and Ray would excel in Gus Bradley's defense, Gus and Pete Carroll have shown the ability to put guys in positions to make plays, they put guys in position to win their one on one matchups, just look what Gus did with a pedestrian talent like Ryan Davis. Gregory has the size to be an every down LEO and he's dynamic against the run and pass, Shane Ray is a guy that would be used more like Bruce Irvin where he stands up on 1st/2nd down and puts his hand in the dirt on 3rd to rush the passer, both guys (Imo) are worth of the pick, Leonard Williams is the guy I want but I don't think he'll be available at 3.
Gregory has the size, but I don't think he's shown the ability to seal the edge. Especially considering he'll be going up against larger tackles in the NFL. That's my biggest concern for him.
What you mentioned about Gus is why I'm thinking they don't go LEO at #3. He seems to have the ability to get guys to rush, even from guys like Davis. Keep in mind that the reason they went with this wide 9 type front defense in Seattle was because they didn't have a dominant rusher.
Quote:Gregory has the size, but I don't think he's shown the ability to seal the edge. Especially considering he'll be going up against larger tackles in the NFL. That's my biggest concern for him.
What you mentioned about Gus is why I'm thinking they don't go LEO at #3. He seems to have the ability to get guys to rush, even from guys like Davis. Keep in mind that the reason they went with this wide 9 type front defense in Seattle was because they didn't have a dominant rusher.
If they don't go Leo at 3, and if Leonard Williams is off the board, Who do they take? David is not drafting an offensive lineman with the 3rd overall pick; there isn't receiver other than Dorial Green Beckham (who's a complete idiot off the field) that warrants going that high. An ideal situation is to trade back to 6 with a team like New York (who would surely have their eye on Winston or Mariota) picking up an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick in the process, but even at 6 I still see the Jaguars taking the best available defense player (I'll use th acronym BADP going forward).
If Leonard isn't on the board that means the ransom for the remaining QB is. We take that. It's really that simple
Quote:I agree that the team needs to get younger on the DLine. But as apprehensive I am of Cooper at #3, so am I of Gregory and Ray. From a talent standpoint, I think Cooper is better than both of these guys. As such, I can't close the door on Cooper.
I need to look at Ray more, but the more I watch Gregory, the more I don't like him (Gregory)
Bingo. My thoughts 100%. Maybe Cooper is the BAP at our selection if Williams is off the board. Not sold on either of the defensive prospects either. It might be the case that Cooper is the safest selection for us at the pick.
Quote:If Leonard isn't on the board that means the ransom for the remaining QB is. We take that. It's really that simple
Dont be so sure. We have no bargaining power because teams know we aren't going QB with the selection. Same for the Raiders, same for the Skins. If one QB slips, it looks like the Jets have all the bargaining power at #6, or the Skins at #5.
If we can take the ransom and nab Cooper or Collins, I'd be fine with that. As noted, we have a receiving corps with potential but no bonafide stars at the moment. If we're trying to make a Legion of Boom, we could still use more competition in the secondary. Confident Collins is superior across the board than either safety position we have now
Quote:Dude it doesn't matter, because there's absolutely no way the Jaguars are selecting Amari Cooper with the 3rd overall pick,
it's a ridiculous notion and frankly a waste of an extremely valuable resource. Why would they spend a top 5 draft pick on a position that is considered a strength? Especially with the inevitable return of Justin Blackmon, and even if he doesn't return, Allen Robinson, Marqise Lee, Allen Hurns, and a veteran WR is more than enough, I can't believe this is even a discussion right now.
Of course it doesn't matter. Does anything on this board really "matter"?
Was that the only post of mine that you've read in this thread? I never said I wanted the Jags to take Cooper, and I have said Williams is the best player in the draft.
What I was talking about had nothing to do with the Jaguars.