Quote:I wasn't even aware she did that, but if she did, without the backing of the White House, then she is definitely at fault for that.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/article..._to_peace/
The media didn't really cover it that much. But both times the Speaker was taking an opposing stance on foreign policy, I don't think this is anything new. You really have 2 America's now, the two parties are as much a separate representation of the same nation as it can get. That old saying a house divided won't stand should be a wake up call but it's not........
Quote:http://www.boston.com/news/world/article..._to_peace/
The media didn't really cover it that much. But both times the Speaker was taking an opposing stance on foreign policy, I don't think this is anything new. You really have 2 America's now, the two parties are as much a separate representation of the same nation as it can get. That old saying a house divided won't stand should be a wake up call but it's not........
It seems like a natural occurrence for our country. Our culture, more and more, focuses on the divisive. Heck, look at reality TV. All that is advertised are people yelling and screaming and getting into one another's face.
It's even gotten into our editorial... er, News system where people consistently editorialize what is happening all to drive up ratings. We as Americans love a good fight, if there is no one
to fight, we'll just fight with ourselves.
Quote:http://www.boston.com/news/world/article..._to_peace/
The media didn't really cover it that much. But both times the Speaker was taking an opposing stance on foreign policy, I don't think this is anything new. You really have 2 America's now, the two parties are as much a separate representation of the same nation as it can get. That old saying a house divided won't stand should be a wake up call but it's not........
This. I'm not saying we all need to agree on every point politically, but we need some bipartisanship and I don't believe that can or will happen with the career politicians currently in office. That and the fact that these days people feel their way is the only way no matter what.....this will be our country's downfall.
Quote:It seems like a natural occurrence for our country. Our culture, more and more, focuses on the divisive. Heck, look at reality TV. All that is advertised are people yelling and screaming and getting into one another's face.
It's even gotten into our editorial... er, News system where people consistently editorialize what is happening all to drive up ratings. We as Americans love a good fight, if there is no one to fight, we'll just fight with ourselves.
Exactly. It's like people have this idea that they just have to be arguing or disagreeing or mad at someone or about something ALL THE TIME. It's sad and exhausting. I'm glad I have limited exposure to stuff. I have Netflix and Amazon Prime so I don't have to listen to commercials. I don't buy magazines anymore and we don't get the paper. Most of what I see is online. I look at different news sources, but like you said, even that's getting ridiculous.
Quote:No matter how you feel about Obama, or our policy towards Israel, or our negotiations with Iran on ending their nuclear program, no matter how you feel about any of that, you have to admit that Netanyahu's decision to come and address a joint session of Congress, without an invitation from the White House, or even consulting the White House, is pretty insulting to the President of the United States.
Even Fox News (Chris Wallace and Shep Smith) has said this is very insulting and a bad thing to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHWbqwh4PB0
Imagine the President going to another country to address members of Parliament without any consultation with the head of state of that country.
It's all a big election stunt by Netanyahu, banking on the idea that insulting the President of the United States will help him win re-election.
The United States is just about Israel's last supporter in the world, and if they lose public support in the United States, they are sunk. That's what makes this such a stupid political stunt. Support for Israel has up until now been bipartisan, but actions like this, deliberately and publicly insulting the head of one political party, risks turning that support into a partisan issue.
What a stupid, pointless thing to do.
1. It's worth keeping in mind that Obama humilated Benjamin Netanyahu in the past. Including when the Israeli P.M. visited the White House. I'm no fan of Netanyahu, who has compromised Israeli greatly by his appeasement. But at least this time around, at least for now, he finally is showing courage. I wish he would go much further, taking out Iranian's nuclear program, regardless what Obama says and does. But at least it's better than the norm.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...claim.html
2. This is an excellent illustration why I expressed on the MB months ago that I wish Shep Smith was no longer on the Fox News Channel. There's a difference between not wanting someone on the air than calling for him to be removed from the air. The perception of Fox being strictly a Conservative News network is so far from reality. The fact they employed Sally Kohn should have convinced more people of this.
3. Israel would be far better off without any U.S. Aid. Israel's annual budget is less than 5 % U.S. aid. The damage the U.S. aid causes Israel, especially when there's a hostile ' administration' such as the current one occupying the oval office, far exceeds the benefits it provides. In exchange for the foreign aid, Israel is told to make concessions that endangers the country substantially. The U.S. should cut off aid to Israel's enemies, most, if not all of which are enemies of the U.S. Including giving aid to Fatah, which in reality will always remain a terrorist organization, regardless of what it's classified by the U.S. and Israeli governments. Israel's greatest victories ( 1948 and 1967 wars ) were when Israel didn't get U.S. aid. Israel's destiny isn't dependent on any other nation.
Quote:Personally, I am just fine with distancing ourselves from Israel. I don't think they antagonistic and land grabby ways are something we should support and reward with billions of dollars.
That aside, I think there is big difference between saying things in interviews and press conferences about another country/leader and going to the country's governing body in a manner that does it in person. Both him and the GOP led congress should be ashamed of themselves. The base will eat it up though regardless of some backlash from the pundits.
Israeli governments have foolishly given away more than 75 % of it's land in order to attempt to achieve peace. Including giving away Gaza in 2005. All the latter got was rockets from Gaza, by Hamas and other terrorist organizations, Israeli's enemies and those that support Israeli's enemies, directly and indirectly, will never be satisfied unless Israel is wiped off the map.
Like I said above, I think it would be great if Israel doesn't receive a dime of aid from the U.S. But with this, U.S. aid to the enemies of Israeli and the U.S. should be cut off as well. I'm 100 % convinced that if both happened, it would benefit both countries greatly and weaken those that want to destroy both countries.
Quote:I don't know if you quite get this, but there's a whole lot of people around the world who think Barack Obama is an unqualified [BAD WORD REMOVED] and they'll do what they have to to avoid dealing with his petulant self.
Obama is unqualified but as we both know he's extremely dangerous. Unlike Obama, individuals like Valerie Jarrett who share the vast majority of Obama's views, are qualified and very influental.
Quote:There are even more people around the world who think Netenyahu is a war criminal that our congress has invited to speak to them presumably about furthering the war mongers' agenda that the GOP will completely faun all over. What's your point? That you dislike Obama?
Those people around the world you are referring to won't be satisfied unless Israel is destroyed. Practically no other country would have restrainted itself the way Israel did when being attacked by Hamas this past summer. If a strong leader who did what's best for the country was in place, the most of the world still would have condemned Israel but at least Israel would be much more secure.
The direction of the world, including the occupier of the oval office, is to want a new world order government. Instead of the U.S. having control over its destiny, they want the U.N. to have control over the destiny of the U.S. and the world. It's the antithesis of what I believe in.
Quote:So was everyone as upset when Pelosi went and visited Assad?
It's the same Nancy Pelosi who thinks Hamas is a humanitarian organization.
Quote:Israeli governments have foolishly given away more than 75 % of it's land in order to attempt to achieve peace. Including giving away Gaza in 2005. All the latter got was rockets from Gaza, by Hamas and other terrorist organizations, Israeli's enemies and those that support Israeli's enemies, directly and indirectly, will never be satisfied unless Israel is wiped off the map.
Like I said above, I think it would be great if Israel doesn't receive a dime of aid from the U.S. But with this, U.S. aid to the enemies of Israeli and the U.S. should be cut off as well. I'm 100 % convinced that if both happened, it would benefit both countries greatly and weaken those that want to destroy both countries.
Fully and wholeheartedly agree with this.
Quote:1. It's worth keeping in mind that Obama humilated Benjamin Netanyahu in the past. Including when the Israeli P.M. visited the White House. I'm no fan of Netanyahu, who has compromised Israeli greatly by his appeasement. But at least this time around, at least for now, he finally is showing courage. I wish he would go much further, taking out Iranian's nuclear program, regardless what Obama says and does. But at least it's better than the norm.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...claim.html
2. This is an excellent illustration why I expressed on the MB months ago that I wish Shep Smith was no longer on the Fox News Channel. There's a difference between not wanting someone on the air than calling for him to be removed from the air. The perception of Fox being strictly a Conservative News network is so far from reality. The fact they employed Sally Kohn should have convinced more people of this.
3. Israel would be far better off without any U.S. Aid. Israel's annual budget is less than 5 % U.S. aid. The damage the U.S. aid causes Israel, especially when there's a hostile ' administration' such as the current one occupying the oval office, far exceeds the benefits it provides. In exchange for the foreign aid, Israel is told to make concessions that endangers the country substantially. The U.S. should cut off aid to Israel's enemies, most, if not all of which are enemies of the U.S. Including giving aid to Fatah, which in reality will always remain a terrorist organization, regardless of what it's classified by the U.S. and Israeli governments. Israel's greatest victories ( 1948 and 1967 wars ) were when Israel didn't get U.S. aid. Israel's destiny isn't dependent on any other nation.
1. Understandable and wasn't a great move on Obama's part for sure. However let's not pretend this is anything other than Boehner playing kids games that have no place in the position he holds, nor that's it's Netenyahu doing the exact same thing he criticized a rival for doing in the 90's, attempting to influence his own election. IMO, that's all it's about.
2. I find it disturbing that anyone could think Fox is anything but right wing rhetoric. That's like saying MSNBC isn't liberal.
3. I'm with you here, I'd take it step further and stop any and all aid that isn't purely humanitarian in general.
Can someone explain to me in an easy to understand way the deal with Israel? Why we fund them and why everyone seems to hate them? It's hard to find an answer that doesn't get complicated.
Quote:Can someone explain to me in an easy to understand way the deal with Israel? Why we fund them and why everyone seems to hate them? It's hard to find an answer that doesn't get complicated.
I don't think a lot people hate them, outside of the arab nations that do obviously.
I think you see a couple different viewpoints. Some people staunchly defend them to their dying days because allies and the idea that they are a Jewish nation surrounded by Arab nations some of which or openly antagonistic at best and downright warlike at worst. Some people just dislike the way they deal with Palestine and constantly take land and build settlements that are so very obviously hostile to coming to a peace between the two.
It's difficult situation because of the terrorist elements surrounding them. They should, as all countries should, have every right to defend themselves some people just do not think the US should be supporting them in an overt way through funds and aid and the like. The current PM does not APPEAR to want peace. He talks and acts very warlike and antagonistic through his speech and actions, IMO.
It's much more complicated and the viewpoints diverse than I am making it seem here. I am no expert and others here have a better grasp on the overarching themes of the issues over there as well as here. I am sure more will chime in with more and better info but figured I'd drop my two cents in.
Quote:Can someone explain to me in an easy to understand way the deal with Israel? Why we fund them and why everyone seems to hate them? It's hard to find an answer that doesn't get complicated.
Why do we fund them? The same reason we fund just about everyone else, America has long adopted a policy we can manipulate global politics with money it'll be our undoing.
Why does everyone hate them? Religion, most of the hate is about disputes over religion.
Quote:Why do we fund them? The same reason we fund just about everyone else, America has long adopted a policy we can manipulate global politics with money it'll be our undoing.
Why does everyone hate them? Religion, most of the hate is about disputes over religion.
We've done so well manipulating other countries with our money!
Quote:1. Understandable and wasn't a great move on Obama's part for sure. However let's not pretend this is anything other than Boehner playing kids games that have no place in the position he holds, nor that's it's Netenyahu doing the exact same thing he criticized a rival for doing in the 90's, attempting to influence his own election. IMO, that's all it's about.
2. I find it disturbing that anyone could think Fox is anything but right wing rhetoric. That's like saying MSNBC isn't liberal.
3. I'm with you here, I'd take it step further and stop any and all aid that isn't purely humanitarian in general.
I'm not fan of John Boehner or Bibi Netenyahu, as from a Conservative view standpoint wish both weren't in their respect positions. Yet, for whatever reasons that motivated them for their recent decision, I'm glad that they made the decision.
There are people on Fox that are right wing oriented. But at least from the perspective who considers himself right wing, I think there are people on the network that are anything but right wing. Compared to all of the other networks though, which I consider left wing, Fox as a whole is clearly further to the right. Not close to the level I prefer but noticeably different than MSNBC, CNN, PBS, CBS, NBC, and ABC.
Even regarding humanitarian aid, it shouldn't go to people that consider the U.S. their enemy.
Quote:I don't think a lot people hate them, outside of the arab nations that do obviously.
I think you see a couple different viewpoints. Some people staunchly defend them to their dying days because allies and the idea that they are a Jewish nation surrounded by Arab nations some of which or openly antagonistic at best and downright warlike at worst. Some people just dislike the way they deal with Palestine and constantly take land and build settlements that are so very obviously hostile to coming to a peace between the two.
It's difficult situation because of the terrorist elements surrounding them. They should, as all countries should, have every right to defend themselves some people just do not think the US should be supporting them in an overt way through funds and aid and the like. The current PM does not APPEAR to want peace. He talks and acts very warlike and antagonistic through his speech and actions, IMO.
It's much more complicated and the viewpoints diverse than I am making it seem here. I am no expert and others here have a better grasp on the overarching themes of the issues over there as well as here. I am sure more will chime in with more and better info but figured I'd drop my two cents in.
Another view point ( which I share ) is that ' Palestine' in the context its used in the last 30 to 40 years is an invented entity ( people ), that's used for the purpose of destroying Israel. All land concessions other than ending Israel as a nation won't satisfy this entity and a very large number of their supporters.
Also, from my perspective, the current P.M talks tough but has a history of making land concessions and causing settlement freezes. Bibi reminds me of many of the RINO Republicans in the U.S. , not a leader like Ted Cruz who I greatly admire.
![[Image: pw_sign_22.gif]](http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/large/pw_sign_22.gif)