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Quote:Marriage predates Christianity so that first part isn't true.

Wrong.

This threads going off the deep end.

Quote:In the 30's whites marrying blacks was a crime in most of the country, then again in parts of the country you could also marry a 13 year old of you had consent from the parents, essentially making pedophilia legal.

First cousins too

Quote:Wrong.

No, I'm not.

In my 50 years of life it is apparent this country is turning liberal whether you want it or not. It is now legal for women to vote (hooray), it is now legal for blacks and whites to marry (hooray), it is now legal for blacks to own property (hooray), it is now legal to consume alcohol (hooray), it is now legal in some states to consume weed (hooray), it is now legal in most states for gays to marry (hooray), you now see women in CEO positions in major corporations (hooray), blacks and Asians and women are in the Congress (hooray).

 

 We are better off having all citizens equally participating in society and not excluding based on race or bigotry or sexual preference.

 

Our building blocks of this nation were laid on a foundation of inclusion, not exclusion.

 

Regards........................the Chiefjag

Quote:In my 50 years of life it is apparent this country is turning liberal whether you want it or not. It is now legal for women to vote (hooray), it is now legal for blacks and whites to marry (hooray), it is now legal for blacks to own property (hooray), it is now legal to consume alcohol (hooray), it is now legal in some states to consume weed (hooray), it is now legal in most states for gays to marry (hooray), you now see women in CEO positions in major corporations (hooray), blacks and Asians and women are in the Congress (hooray).

 

 We are better off having all citizens equally participating in society and not excluding based on race or bigotry or sexual preference.

 

Our building blocks of this nation were laid on a foundation of inclusion, not exclusion.

 

Regards........................the Chiefjag

 

Well said, Chief!  

I don't have a problem with much of social liberalism, in it's pure form liberalism simply means more liberty. It's the liberalism that requires government to distribute the liberty I have a problem with. Many of the people called liberals today are really socialist, those are the ones I have issues with. I consider myself a classical liberal in the Thomas Jefferson since, defend life and property other then that stay out of it. 

Quote:Wrong.

Actually, evidence suggest marriage predates written recorded history. Do a quick Google search. It looks like religion does not own maariage.

Quote:Marriage predates Christianity so that first part isn't true.

Who said anything about Christianity?

Quote:I don't have a problem with much of social liberalism, in it's pure form liberalism simply means more liberty. It's the liberalism that requires government to distribute the liberty I have a problem with. Many of the people called liberals today are really socialist, those are the ones I have issues with. I consider myself a classical liberal in the Thomas Jefferson since, defend life and property other then that stay out of it. 

 

In the Jefferson sense - other than that owning human beings thing.

 

And funny how Jefferson didn't really believe that once he became President.

 

But I'm with you on the social liberalism - i.e, if it doesn't have an impact on my freedom what do I care what others do. I'm still waiting to hear why I should be worried about two men or woman getting married.

Quote:Actually, evidence suggest marriage predates written recorded history. Do a quick Google search. It looks like religion does not own maariage.

And you assume religion doesn't also predate written recorded history?

Quote:And you assume religion doesn't also predate written recorded history?

I believe it is natural for humans to want to enter a union together and has nothing to do with religion at least in the sense that religion isn't necessary for marriage to exist. As of now, religion, especially christianity, acts like it owns marriage and that shouldn't be the case. They use that to define what marriage is.

Quote:And you assume religion doesn't also predate written recorded history?

No, I'm sure it does predate it. Christianity doesn't though. There is a reason christianity is brought up since that is the main religon opposing gay marriage.

Quote:No, I'm sure it does predate it. Christianity doesn't though. There is a reason christianity is brought up since that is the main religon opposing gay marriage.

 

Now hold on a second, Islam beheads homosexuals, Buddhist strictly prohibit homosexuality, Judaism strictly prohibits homosexuality (for reference that's where Christianity gets it from), All of the Eastern religions prohibit homosexuality and many of the eastern nations enforce it with the death penalty. Heck the only religion that doesn't prohibit homosexuality outright is Wicca and it's off shoots. So let's not say "Christianity is brought up since that is the main religion opposing gay marriage" in all honesty. Christian opposition is mild at best. 

As long as they're consenting adults, it shouldn't be anybody's business but their own.  I don't think people who don't agree with it should be forced into cooperation though.  Arizona had a situation a couple years ago where a gay couple wanted to get a cake from a bakery, but the bakery refused because the owners of the bakery didn't believe in gay marriage.  The couple took them to court and the court forced the bakery to make the cake.  That's what I don't agree with.  Both sides of the argument, imo, should fall under your fifth amendment right to be left alone.  If you don't want to partake, you shouldn't be forced into it.

 

Let a marriage agreement between two people, gay or not, be a contract.  Get the state out of the union completely and only bring the courts in when divorce or breech of contract becomes an issue.

Quote:Now hold on a second, Islam beheads homosexuals, Buddhist strictly prohibit homosexuality, Judaism strictly prohibits homosexuality (for reference that's where Christianity gets it from), All of the Eastern religions prohibit homosexuality and many of the eastern nations enforce it with the death penalty. Heck the only religion that doesn't prohibit homosexuality outright is Wicca and it's off shoots. So let's not say "Christianity is brought up since that is the main religion opposing gay marriage" in all honesty. Christian opposition is mild at best.

I meant in America. And christianity is the most popular religion wordwide.

Quote:As long as they're consenting adults, it shouldn't be anybody's business but their own.  I don't think people who don't agree with it should be forced into cooperation though.  Arizona had a situation a couple years ago where a gay couple wanted to get a cake from a bakery, but the bakery refused because the owners of the bakery didn't believe in gay marriage.  The couple took them to court and the court forced the bakery to make the cake.  That's what I don't agree with.  Both sides of the argument, imo, should fall under your fifth amendment right to be left alone.  If you don't want to partake, you shouldn't be forced into it.

 

Let a marriage agreement between two people, gay or not, be a contract.  Get the state out of the union completely and only bring the courts in when divorce or breech of contract becomes an issue.

 

Re the Arizona bakery - you're either open to the public or you aren't. It's ok with you if they chose not to serve Jews? Or African-Americans? Or Christians?

 

Fifth amendment right to be left alone. Huh?

Quote:Re the Arizona bakery - you're either open to the public or you aren't. It's ok with you if they chose not to serve Jews? Or African-Americans? Or Christians?

 

Fifth amendment right to be left alone. Huh?

In my mind, yes. 

 

I think as a business owner, you have the right to refuse service to anyone. If you can get by with a policy of not serving certain individuals, so be it.

Well the bakery is operating under business laws and protections all taxpayers pay for,  including Jews, Christians, Gays, Transgenders, et. al. so it can't discriminate.

 

In Florida, the voters in this state decided my restaurant shall be non-smoking despite my personal preference. How do you feel about that? The voters in Florida have not one cent in investment in my business but they make the rules on how I operate.

 

 

Regards.........................the Chiefjag

Quote:Re the Arizona bakery - you're either open to the public or you aren't. It's ok with you if they chose not to serve Jews? Or African-Americans? Or Christians?


Fifth amendment right to be left alone. Huh?

Wrong there is no law classifying sexual orentation as a protected minority class. Right or wrong there are laws protecting race, religion and gender as protected minority class.