Quote:How can the offense make a defensive player jump offsides? That is stupid coaching.
As much as you watch football, you've never seen or heard about this happening??? You really can't be serious that you've never seen a offense try to make a team jump offsides with their snap count!!!
Quote:Do you not watch the NFL? It's done all the time. Aaron Rodgers is particularly good at getting defensive players to jump, via a hard count. It's not stupid coaching, although it isn't successful all that often. It's worth trying if you know you're going to punt anyway and the extra yardage for delay of game is no big deal.
Watch the games before commenting.
What makes you think I don't watch the games? There is a huge difference between watching games and understanding everything that happens on the field. You can watch it for 50 years and never know what a hard count is.
Quote:As much as you watch football, you've never seen or heard about this happening? You really can't be serious that you've never seen a offense try to make a team jump offsides with their snap count!
I have heard of quarterbacks doing it. I just don't know when I see it happen. It is like difficulty picking up sarcasm.
If I watched football with someone else who truly understands this stuff, it would be much easier. But the only person I have to watch football with is my mom, who does not know all of the rules yet.
Quote:I have heard of quarterbacks doing it. I just don't know when I see it happen. It is like difficulty picking up sarcasm.
If I watched football with someone else who truly understands this stuff, it would be much easier. But the only person I have to watch football with is my mom, who does not know all of the rules yet.
9 times out of 10 the announcers comment on a successful and even an unsuccessful attempt. Haven't you ever wondered why teams will line up and do a hard count on fourth down and then either take the delay or call a time out and then kick the ball any way? They are trying to draw an offsides and pick up the first down.
Quote:Adam, the scary part is that, I believe she does watch the games.
Then we're seeing different games. Perhaps they televise another league in Gainesville.
Quote:I have heard of quarterbacks doing it. I just don't know when I see it happen. It is like difficulty picking up sarcasm.
If I watched football with someone else who truly understands this stuff, it would be much easier. But the only person I have to watch football with is my mom, who does not know all of the rules yet.
If you wish to increase your knowledge I'm sure there are numerous books out there giving the basics(and more). I suppose there is even an NFL for Dummies in print. (That's the real title, meant to be humorous, not derogatory).
Give a couple a try. We can all stand to be coached up.
Quote:9 times out of 10 the announcers comment on a successful and even an unsuccessful attempt. Haven't you ever wondered why teams will line up and do a hard count on fourth down and then either take the delay or call a time out and then kick the ball any way? They are trying to draw an offsides and pick up the first down.
I don't know when I am hearing a hard count. All I know is the team is going for it on fourth down.
Quote:If you wish to increase your knowledge I'm sure there are numerous books out there giving the basics (and more). I suppose there is even an NFL for Dummies in print. (That's the real title, meant to be humorous, not derogatory).
Give a couple a try. We can all stand to be coached up.
Do you mean
Football for Dummies by Howie Long? I read that one. He wrote the defense reacts to what the offense does, not the other way around
Quote:I don't know when I am hearing a hard count. All I know is the team is going for it on fourth down.
Do you mean Football for Dummies by Howie Long? I read that one. He wrote the defense reacts to what the offense does, not the other way around
It does react the the offense, that's why the offense is trying to get them to react by jumping offsides.
Quote:It does react the the offense, that's why the offense is trying to get them to react by jumping offsides.
Hey, I tried.
Someone else take over, will ya?
Quote:I'm sure the fact that he admitted they were wrong makes Detroit feel a lot better...
The more the NFL makes they made mistakes on that play and overall in the game, the worse it's been for me. The worst aspect of what transpired is the uncertainty of what would have occurred if not for the botched Officiating on the Brandon Pettigrew play.
Quote:Sour grapes... LOL...
The WR was pushing off on the LB... The right thing was to let that play go. Which is what happened. Detroit should have gone for it on 4th and 1, but wimped out.
They lost, fair and square. Seriously, if you watched ESPN today, you would have seen the WR (Pettigrew) was shoving the LB before the ball was thrown. That's offensive pass interference and has been called all season long.
Let it go, the better team won. Detriot only got robbed in terms of choking that game away...
![[Image: giphy.gif]](http://media.giphy.com/media/119SFXjoMsax6o/giphy.gif)
While we will likely disagree on whether it should have been P.I., this is the first time I have ever seen a penalty being reversed after the Referee made the announcement in an NFL game. If you or anyone knows of another NFL game this has happened in, please mention the game.
Even if the pass interference penalty was never called, the NFL admitted that TE Brandon Pettigrew was held earlier on the play. That should have been a 5 yard penalty and more importantly an automatic first down.
Another key factor on that play is an unsportsman like conduct penalty on Dez Bryant, for running on to the field without his helmet to argue the call, would have been justified if it was called. The NFL said they don't condone that type of action but it was a subjective call. My prediction is the loophole will change come March at the next Owner's meeting. Much like the rule changed regarding replay challenges after Jim Schwartz threw a challenge flag in the 2012 Thanksgiving Day game vs. the Texans after a long TD run by Justin Forsett. That play would have been reversed under current rules.
Even using your point of view that an Offensive P.I. penalty on Pettigrew should have been called, if the Defensive holding penalty was called, it would have been offsetting penalties. That would have meant, 3rd and 1 again.
Anyway the play is looked at, the complexion of the game changed in a substantial manner because of the horrific officiating. No one knows what would have transpired afterward. Like I expressed earlier in this thread, that's the most difficult part of the situation.
I plan on addressing the 4th and 1 decision later on in this thread.
Quote:Sucks for Detroit, but with their post season track record, odds are they still would have found a way to lose.
That's one way of looking at it. History can't be denied.
However, the 2014 Lions were 6-1 in games decided by 7 or less points, including five 4th QTR comebacks. That was the most in the NFL this season. While many past Detroit teams, including the 2012 and 2013 teams, faded badly in crunch time, the 2014 Lions team had tremendous resilency in the regular season. W/o that characteristic, the Lions wouldn't have come close to making the playoffs. Especially, when considering the numerous key injuries the team had.
Granted, the Lions didn't perform well enough on all 3 phases of the game after the reversal. P Sam Martin, who had a very good overall season, shanked the punt, which nullified Jim Caldwell's strategy to punt instead of going for a 1st Down. The NFL admitted that they made at least one major mistake on officiating for both teams on the Cowboys possession in which they scored the eventual game winning TD. Hence, I won't use the blown call on the 4th and 6 play in which Ndamukong Suh was held as part of the equation. Yet, it still gets back to a totally different game if the Officials didn't reverse a call after the Referee announced the decision. Something that at best is extremely rare in the history of the league. With dehydration a major issue for the Lions Defense, having another set of downs, in FG position, would have given the Lions a much better chance at winning the game. It's not a given by any means that the Lions would have won the game. But the odds would have been in the Lions favor.
They should've just went for it on 4th down. It was all downhill after that.
Quote:One (1) playoff win since 1957.
That is some track record.
The amazing part of this track record is the Lions haven't moved out of Greater Detroit despite such little post season success. I have serious doubts that any other franchise could have survived without moving with so little post season success.
In the same time frame, the Cardinals, which had a similar post-season track record of the Lions until 2008, moved twice.
Detroit made the playoffs 11 times in this time frame. Of course the number would have been higher if expanded playoffs didn't occur multiple times. On the other hand, St. Louis had two teams in 48 seasons that made the playoffs only 8 times. Yet, they also had a Super Bowl win in that city in the 1999 season and another Super Bowl appearance two seasons later. Despite this, St. Louis is in serious danger of losing it's 2nd team in the time span Detroit has only 1 playoff win.
Quote:I don't understand how a team with that much talent has that kind of misfortune. I think their fans have it worse than we do.
I don't believe in curses on sports franchises. But if I did, the Lions would be in competition with the Cubs for the most powerful curse that still exists.
One thing the Lions haven't lacked in the 45 seasons I've been a fan of the team is some tremendous individual talent. From Lem Barney and Charlie Sanders in the 1970's to Calvin Johnson and Ndamukong Suh in the present, with Billy Sims and Barry Sanders in between, I've been fortuante to have seen some outstanding players wear the Honolulu Blue and Silver colors.
Yet, for the most part, the QB position has been average or below. Matthew Stafford is the best Lions QB of my lifetime. Greg Landry was the last Lions QB to be voted to the Pro Bowl. That was following the 1971 season, which is 43 seasons ago! No other team has a QB streak like this one.
Quote:I agree that it should have never been called. Or that it should have been off setting penalties. There is no way it wasnt OPI also if it was DPI. The officials should just "let them play" in the playoffs, making the call at all just gave reason for the trolls to come out. Especially the ones who are fan of all animal teams...
Like I expressed above, at the very least it should have been offsetting penalties because of the missed Defensive Holding call that was missed on the play. The NFL admitted that was a blown call.
Quote:They are one of the NFLs oldest franchises too. http://listafterlist.com/oldest-nfl-franchises/
They have had talent through the years too, just not at the most important position, QB, although Stafford has to be the best QB they have had in as long as I can remember.
Maybe they are just cursed.
No question the QB position has held the Lions back tremendously for post of the most 1957 era. I touched on that a few minutes ago. While I believe current starting QB Matthew Stafford is a winning level QB, who played well enough for the Lions to win the road playoff game against the Cowboys the other day, Stafford hasn't performed as an elite QB often enough. He's certainly hasn't proven to be on the level of Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees. Whether Stafford will ever get to that level remains to be seen. The talent and work ethic are there and he responded well to the coaching from the Jim Caldwell staff. Having much better Offensive Line play and another season in the Joe Lombardi system would certainly help.
Quote:and then the refs did the Johnny football money grab towards Jones...
Many people believe that the NFL./ officials were biased in favor of the Cowboys because they are considered ' America's Team', etc. Like I expressed to TMD back in the spring or summer, this is a conspiracy theory I don't believe in. It would be hypocritical if I changed my view because my team was on the short end of the stick.
What I do believe is that the home field advantage might have helped the Cowboys regarding the key situation. I seriously doubt that the officials would have reversed the call in suburban Dallas if Jason Witten was on the receiving end of the call instead of Brandon Pettigrew. If the game was in Detroit, the chances of the flag being picked up likely would have been reduced considerably.