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Full Version: FSU vs. Oregon - Break it down: Long Form
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Long time before the game, but I'm impatient. So here's my first attempt to figure the matchup after spending a few days learning about Oregon. I'll admit, I know a lot more about FSU than Oregon and am almost certainly biased. But I think we all are to some extent. I also believe in advanced statistics with the proviso I'm also going to look for what they're not taking into account.

 

When FSU has the ball:

 

The conversation has to start with Winston. He's polarizing both in terms of his off-field incidents and on-field play. For those that have followed the post game interviews with Jimbo, they know that many (probably about half) of his interceptions have been because of issues with young receivers. Either misreading a defense and running the wrong route, giving up on a route because the coverage is fairly tight, or the usual dropsies and tipped passes that every receiving corps has resulting in some interceptions. He had a stinker against UF. Possibly because he was also prepping for a 10 hour hearing in a few days where his lawyer wasn't allowed to speak. Basically, I'm confident that there's still a consensus he's a top 10 QB in the nation and I personally feel he's the best QB in college today.

 

Oregon has an average defense for a ranked team (Ranked #18 in adjusted defensive efficiency). They allow a lot of long drives (in terms of plays) and are not great in yards per play. They allow TDs on 61% of redzone possessions and allow a 42% conversion rate on 3rd down (84th in the nation). Those last stats are not adjusted. They also have 25 takeaways on defense, good for #25 in the country. Largely because of the takeaways they have a decent scoring defense and they faced the 20th toughest schedule in terms of offenses faced in the country.

 

FSU has an very good offense for a ranked team (#7 in adjusted efficiency). This includes 27 turnovers good for 11th worst in the nation. When they eliminate the turnovers, they are one of the top 2-3 offenses in the country again. They score TDs on 61% of their redzone possessions and convert 47% of 3rd downs (20th in the nation). They actually faced the #1 toughest row of defenses in the country according to football outsiders. UF, Clemson, Virginia, and Louisville are all in the top 15 of adjusted defense and feature many NFL prospects that I've seen talked about on here for the Jags.

 

The disparity between the advanced stats and the points per game for these teams is easily explained. Oregon is #6 in opponent's starting field position. Their offense moves the ball, kick coverage is generally good, and the other team has to go a long way. FSU is #73 in starting field position for themselves.

 

Fortunately for FSU fans, turnovers and field position are two factors that are most variable game to game. We've shown we can take care of the ball and Winston will have to be careful not to do too much. We also need to avoid penalties on returns, especially kick returns, that give us 90 yard fields.

 

The other key will be FSU's young talented receivers like Rudolph. Oregon will try to take away Green, O'Leary, and Cook. They can't shut down all three, but when FSU has a fourth option that's working they're practically unstoppable. It's also important to note that there will be a lot of plays in this game due to the other side of the ball. That means we can't wear down our stars too much.

 

FSU will get a lot of points assuming they can avoid turnovers and get even average field position. They can dominate this defense if Rudolph has one of his better games against the single coverage he's likely to receive like he did against Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, and Miami.

 

When Oregon has the ball:

 

Marcus Mariota is an outstanding college QB. He has seven players averaging over 13 yards a catch and with at least 17 catches. He completes 68% of his passes and has over 10 yards an attempt. Oregon capitalizes on confusion and he has many easy throws to open receivers. They're top 5 in all the adjusted yards per play statistics (running, passing, short distance, long distance) in addition to running more plays than almost anyone. They convert 51% of 3rd downs (#6 in the country) and score TDs on 67% of redzone attempts. They also take care of the ball with only 8 turnovers all year. That is tops in the nation 3 ahead of the second place teams USCw, Kansas State, UTEP, and UGA. 

 

FSU's defense has been below average for a ranked team (#26 in adjusted efficiency). They only allow TDs on 52% of redzone attempts but are even worse than Oregon on 3rd down, allowing a 43% conversion rate (95th in the nation). They've also snagged a lot of turnovers, 24, good for 27th in the nation. Most of the success against FSU has been blown coverages or power rushing attacks.

 

Oregon's defense has faced the 33rd toughest array of defenses in the country. FSU's defense has faced the 10th toughest array of offenses. Georgia Tech, Miami, and Boston College are all in the top 18 of adjusted offensive efficiency while all suffered from porous defenses.

 

The good news for FSU is that Oregon's offense plays into FSU's strengths. Oregon spreads the field, makes D-Lineman try to run and make tackles in space, and make the LBs and secondary play sideline to sideline. FSU's best defense comes when they're in the nickel package asking Ramsay to do everything. Since Oregon didn't play USC this year, this unit will be the most athletic D-Line they've faced.

 

The key number however, is only 35. Oregon is 2-3 over the past three years when held to 35 points or fewer. The past two bowls they've been held to 35 and 30 points. They're good, but when teams have extra time to prepare, Oregon is a lot less effective. It's hard to simulate the tempo and complexity of their offense with only a few days against the scout team. They did win both of those bowl games because Texas and Kansas State were inept on offense each getting held to under 300 yards and under 20 points.

 

I expect Oregon to move the ball, have to settle for field goals a lot more than they're used to, and be in that 28-35 point range on offense.

 

Overall-way-too-early-conclusion:

 

FSU's defense will perform better than many expect and frustrate Oregon. FSU will keep pace on the other end and get lots of yards. Redzone is the key FSU advantage and turnover history and field position favors Oregon. If turnovers are even, I think it comes down to the last possession. With these QBs, probably whoever has the ball last wins. Think Young (Mariota) vs. Leinart (Winston). If we can get anyone going outside our top 3 weapons going on offense and keep even in turnovers, FSU wins going away. If Oregon can turn Winston over or Cook's fumblitis from early in the year resurface, Oregon wins going away.

 

Final prediction:

 

FSU - 35

Oregon - 30

If a team comes out and punches Oregon in the mouth, they back down. Oregon hasn't seen the size and speed combination we have on defense.

Oregon hasn't seen a D-line as big and athletic as FSU. Oregon's defense is small and can be dominated at the point of attack by FSU's big offensive line. Mariota is a great QB and will make some plays on our secondary though. It will be a close game but I do see FSU winning by 6. 34-28 FSU wins
Oregon actually isn't small on defense. Just found this article: http://floridastate.scout.com/story/1490...regon?s=16
Quote:Oregon actually isn't small on defense. Just found this article: http://floridastate.scout.com/story/1490...regon?s=16
 

I don't really care about how "big" the FSU Dline is. I've seen that line get pushed back plenty of times throughout the course of the season.
FSU faced four of the top rushing attacks that average over 5 YPC: GT, NC State, Miami, and BC plus three more that averaged over 4 YPC: UF, Notre Dame, and Syracuse. They still managed to average 3.9 YPC on defense.

 

And they got more solid as the year went along and the young depth at DT got experience. We're not going to shut Oregon's read option down, but MEJ and company will make enough plays that they can't run it at will.

The O-line is finally coming together, Jameis had his best game in a while and Cook is a superstar who is breaking out at the right time.  I like how we are going into the playoffs.

I think if Oregon really is the second-best team in the country the size issue may be overblown a bit. The "small" Ducks won 12 games, beating everybody on their schedule. Is the size difference specific to Oregon or throughout the Pacific 12 conference? If being small is just an Oregon thing the Ducks have already proven they can beat players much bigger than themselves. Chances are losing to the Seminoles would require bigger problems than height and weight even if size is an issue. I hope this game is won by the team that plays better regardless of how big or small the players are.

Quote:Oregon actually isn't small on defense. Just found this article: <a class="bbc_url" href='http://floridastate.scout.com/story/1490166-fsu-s-defensive-size-a-challenge-for-oregon?s=16'>http://floridastate.scout.com/story/1490166-fsu-s-defensive-size-a-challenge-for-oregon?s=16</a>
Good read. Seems FSU has a great chance to dominate the lines, may be able to pressure mariota into mistakes and take away that run game. Defensively I feel that Oregon won't be able to stop our run game and the offensive line should be able to give Winston enough time to find the open receiver.
If Oregon's dline plays like they did against Arizona, they win the game easy.  I do think Oregon is better and if they played 100 times Oregon would win more than half.  But FSU is good enough to win.  They need Winston to play well.  And their dline needs to push Oregon around which is very possible.  

 

I also think it depends on if FSU turns it over.  Florida wasnt good enough to take advantage of the turnovers.  However GaTech would have been.  But FSU didnt turn it over.  If they had good chance they lose. I know it's cliche but if FSU loses the turnover battle, I just dont see how they win.

 

Oregon is so explosive and can score in bunches.  If they jump out to a big lead, will be hard for FSU to overcome that.  

Quote:FSU faced four of the top rushing attacks that average over 5 YPC: GT, NC State, Miami, and BC plus three more that averaged over 4 YPC: UF, Notre Dame, and Syracuse. They still managed to average 3.9 YPC on defense.

 

And they got more solid as the year went along and the young depth at DT got experience. We're not going to shut Oregon's read option down, but MEJ and company will make enough plays that they can't run it at will.
It's a bit misleading given how FSU's other games were though.

 

GT - 5.6 ypc

NC St - 4.4 ypc

Miami - 4.4

BC - 4.7

ND - 4.5

Cuse - 5.0

 

4.77 YPC is a healthy average to give up to an offense. Add in Mariotta and that Oregon offense and the task becomes even tougher for FSU compared to who those other teams had at QB/offense.

What strikes me is that FSU faced 7 teams good at running the ball. They held 5 of them below their normal YPC. 3 of those were well below normal. (You left off 3.4 for UF v FSU. I know it didn't fit your narrative, but it's just as valid a data point. YPC is also a weighted statistic so you divide total yards by total carries if you want an YPC for those games. You calculated YPCPG - Mean YPC per game.)

 

I'd also argue that the last team to exceed their normal rushing average against FSU was Notre Dame on OCTOBER 18. FSU has a very good run defense and it's gotten better as the year went along.

 

As I originally acknowledged in my first post, Oregon is great on offense. Really outstanding. Oregon will almost certainly score in the upper 20s at least. But when FSU's safeties don't have to worry about blowing assignments over the top, they get a lot tougher in the red zone. Add that to the best D-Line Oregon will face all year and FSU should keep them at or under that magical 35 number I talked about originally.

Quote:If Oregon's dline plays like they did against Arizona, they win the game easy.  I do think Oregon is better and if they played 100 times Oregon would win more than half.  But FSU is good enough to win.  They need Winston to play well.  And their dline needs to push Oregon around which is very possible.  

 

I also think it depends on if FSU turns it over.  Florida wasnt good enough to take advantage of the turnovers.  However GaTech would have been.  But FSU didnt turn it over.  If they had good chance they lose. I know it's cliche but if FSU loses the turnover battle, I just dont see how they win.

 

Oregon is so explosive and can score in bunches.  If they jump out to a big lead, will be hard for FSU to overcome that.  
 

After scoring plays, the most important thing to do in a football game is win the turnover battle. I rarely see a team lose the turnover battle and win the game. So the big question here is who will turn it over more? I remember Florida's kicker missed a couple field goal attempts and FSU won by five points. Obviously, the Gators should have won that game. If Florida State turns the ball over in Pasadena, Oregon will capitalize.
No, if UF had made those field goals FSU wouldn't have ran clock on their last two drives and would have hurried up to win. That's what they've done all year when down.

I'm thinking huge blowout for FSU along the lines of 49-14. I mean they lost to Arizona at home. Yes they won the rematch, but that loss shows me they're vulnerable. FSU has too many weapons on offense for the Ducks to handle for a full game. East win for FSU.


This post is dedicated to jtmoney my favorite FSU fan.
Oregon 38

FSU 19

Quote:I'm thinking huge blowout for FSU along the lines of 49-14. I mean they lost to Arizona at home. Yes they won the rematch, but that loss shows me they're vulnerable. FSU has too many weapons on offense for the Ducks to handle for a full game. East win for FSU.


This post is dedicated to jtmoney my favorite FSU fan.
Lol I like where your head is at Big Grin


Both offenses have the quick strike ability and I imagine it will be an offensive shootout, but wouldn't it be funny if it's a low scoring game? Something like 17-14.
Quote:What strikes me is that FSU faced 7 teams good at running the ball. They held 5 of them below their normal YPC. 3 of those were well below normal. (You left off 3.4 for UF v FSU. I know it didn't fit your narrative, but it's just as valid a data point. YPC is also a weighted statistic so you divide total yards by total carries if you want an YPC for those games. You calculated YPCPG - Mean YPC per game.)

 

I'd also argue that the last team to exceed their normal rushing average against FSU was Notre Dame on OCTOBER 18. FSU has a very good run defense and it's gotten better as the year went along.

 

As I originally acknowledged in my first post, Oregon is great on offense. Really outstanding. Oregon will almost certainly score in the upper 20s at least. But when FSU's safeties don't have to worry about blowing assignments over the top, they get a lot tougher in the red zone. Add that to the best D-Line Oregon will face all year and FSU should keep them at or under that magical 35 number I talked about originally

 

 

Didn't meet my narrative? Wow this is awesome. I apparently am now both a FSU homer (according to UCFKnight) and a FSU hater (according to you). I missed one team, which was UF, which probably was the best job they've done against a good running team this season. Otherwise, this FSU line has been pushed around quite often this season.

 

I pulled the numbers from ESPN and just took the average. So, since you're so willing to in-depth about this...what is the actual YPC against FSU by those 8 teams?

 

Holding them below their average doesn't really mean much, given that those teams also played lesser teams that give up yardage. The best and only way to really look at them is how they did against FSU...without comparing that to how they did against Ga Southern (as an example).

 

Point is...if the Ducks get 4.4 ypc like what these teams have been getting against FSU...Mariotta will make them pay if they cheat against the run...something that most of those other teams really couldn't do. Moreso, Marcus can make them pay both from him running and throwing.

 

This is going to be a problematic game defensively for the Noles.
I never said hater. I rarely call people names. I'm saying they played 7 good rushing teams. I mentioned them in the post above yours. You picked only the 6 of those they did the worst against and used that for your conclusion. I figured you threw out UF because that number didn't fit. If you just overlooked it, fine.

 

I don't care about the total YPC against those 7 teams because some games are more predictive than others.

 

The three games they did the best are BC, UM, and UF.  Those games all also came at the end of the year. All were at least a half a yard less in YPC against FSU compared to the rest of their schedule. FSU has gotten a LOT better against the run as the year went on. The week before UM they played Virginia and held them to 1.2 YPC. The only reason FSU's run defense isn't getting more respect is because they played 3 of the top rushing teams in all the power five conferences in their last four games.

 

I think Oregon will get somewhere near 4.4 ypc. Anything less than that has to be reason for celebration. Right now they're averaging 5.5 ypc. Oregon is REALLY good on offense. FSU is not going to shut Oregon down. They just need to slow Mariota more than the Duck's defense can slow Winston and company. And barring turnovers, I believe they'll do that.
Im going Ducks but thats because I see them play far more often than FSU. Should be a fun game either way.

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