This one didn't get the media attention that Ferguson did, and it probably should have. I read a good deal of the Ferguson grand jury material but haven't seen or heard a lot yet of this NY case.
From the little I have seen this cop shouldn't have walked free at all. Crazy situation here.
http://gawker.com/killer-cop-who-choked-...socialflow
The Ferguson grand jury got it right, this case in NY got it wrong.
And like Ferguson, I hate that it gets turned into a race thing. This is a cop/citizen issue, period.
Too many holes in this case for me. He resisted arrest, it was unnecessary use of force, the choke hold was banned by police but its not illegal. The hold itself is still being taught by police academies. The guy was yelling that he couldn't breathe, yet, you need to draw breath in order to continuously tell someone that you can't breathe.
He was severely overweight with heart and health problems. It could have gone either way I think. Yes, they should have indicted the cop and to investigate even further, but no way they would have convicted him for homicide or murder. I think he did himself in by resisting arrest. Its a big mess..
Quote:This one didn't get the media attention that Ferguson did, and it probably should have. I read a good deal of the Ferguson grand jury material but haven't seen or heard a lot yet of this NY case.
From the little I have seen this cop shouldn't have walked free at all. Crazy situation here. http://gawker.com/killer-cop-who-choked-...socialflow
The Ferguson grand jury got it right, this case in NY got it wrong.
And like Ferguson, I hate that it gets turned into a race thing. This is a cop/citizen issue, period.
All you have to do is see the video and you'll have serious questions as to why this wasn't at least manslaughter.
Having video on this one makes it a lot easier to question. With no video from Ferguson means we'll never really know what happened. I'd love to hear more from the grand jury as to how they came to their conclusion, what materials they reviewed, and what the vote was.
I also hate that it gets turned into a race thing, but not surprising at all.
There's video of it I'll try and link it later I'm on my phone now. But yeah this is going to get rolled into the ferguson case by both sides and it's completely different situation.
I don't know how I feel about it. I'm not a fan of choke-holds, and I've never had to use one. On the same note, I have been in situations where a choke-hold would have been less harmful than the outcome I chose, but I chose not to use the choke-hold because there's a very small chance that something like this happens.
When a man that big doesn't want to go to jail, someone usually has to get hurt. Sometimes, there are no other alternatives. This isn't a video game. I promise you that passive resistance is a very difficult thing to overcome with a person of his size. They had dealt with him before and warned him previously. Stupid law? Maybe but it's still a legal arrest. When they decided that he had to go to jail, he had to go to jail.
Besides, it appears like he released the choke-hold before he even said he couldn't breathe. Am I mistaken there? How much of his lack-of-breathing is because of his physical condition and that he continues to resist arrest?
The mayor encouraging protest but not acknowledging it's new Yorks ridiculous laws creating the problem is just to much.
Quote:All you have to do is see the video and you'll have serious questions as to why this wasn't at least manslaughter.
Having video on this one makes it a lot easier to question. With no video from Ferguson means we'll never really know what happened. I'd love to hear more from the grand jury as to how they came to their conclusion, what materials they reviewed, and what the vote was.
I also hate that it gets turned into a race thing, but not surprising at all.
The eyewitness accounts back the scientific evidence perfectly in Ferguson.
I'm with you on the NY case
Quote:The eyewitness accounts back the scientific evidence perfectly in Ferguson.
I'm with you on the NY case
I'm not saying they were right or wrong on Ferguson, but in my opinion since the officer was never cross examined we'll never know the truth. I do think people will know the truth they want.
Perhaps the New York DA will release as much info as did the Ferguson DA.
Quote:I'm not saying they were right or wrong on Ferguson, but in my opinion since the officer was never cross examined we'll never know the truth. I do think people will know the truth they want.
The court system isn't in place just to cover bases. If the Grand Jury didn't feel like PC existed, then a jury definitely wouldn't be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, either. Besides, arresting someone without PC is violating their 4th Amendment. It shouldn't be done for the sake of being done, and his attorney would never let him touch the stand.
There is a reason the Choke hold was banned which was to prevent outcomes like this.
The officers didnt even try to restrain his hands to put the cuffs on him.
My family in NY called me and told me its getting ugly in Brooklyn already.
Quote:There is a reason the Choke hold was banned which was to prevent outcomes like this.
The officers didnt even try to restrain his hands to put the cuffs on him.
My family in NY called me and told me its getting ugly in Brooklyn already.
Tell them to be safe, I don't doubt it's going to get ugly.
People have every right to be upset about this case, however it has to stop short of the violence we've seen in Ferguson or the protestors lose the moral high ground.
Quote:The court system isn't in place just to cover bases. If the Grand Jury didn't feel like PC existed, then a jury definitely wouldn't be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, either. Besides, arresting someone without PC is violating their 4th Amendment. It shouldn't be done for the sake of being done, and his attorney would never let him touch the stand.
That's not how it works. The Grand Jury is controlled by the DA, they see only as much or as little as he decides they should see.
And if Wilson doesn't take the stand at least the jury can draw whatever conclusions it wishes.
I'm just saying there seems to be unanswered questions. Did Wilson look assaulted based on those photos? Was there conflicting testimony? Will we ever know what the heck happened?
All we have are Wilson's (self-serving and lawyered-up) statement. It's a shame. He certainly may have still walked after a trial; certainly seemed to have a good chance.
For the New York case - the City will have to pay millions to settle the civil case.
The man repeatedly said "I can't breathe" and yet there are three grown men still on top of him.
These men should never be cops again, anywhere and I would've liked to have seen the one applying the chokehold tried for manslaughter.
Quote:The man repeatedly said "I can't breathe" and yet there are three grown men still on top of him.
These men should never be cops again, anywhere and I would have like to have seen the one applying the chokehold tried for manslaughter.
Too hard for me to believe.. If you can talk, you can breathe..
What I think happened is that the weight of 4 officers on his back, combined with his health issues caused his death. But I agree that the choke hold should have never been used and they need to outlaw it..
Quote:Too hard for me to believe.. If you can talk, you can breathe..
What I think happened is that the weight of 4 officers on his back, combined with his health issues caused his death. But I agree that the choke hold should have never been used and they need to outlaw it..
I agree completely. But the man was pleading and gasping for air until he lost consciousness. Obviously he could breathe while talking….. until he couldn't anymore.
He wasn't a violent criminal and nothing about the situation called for a chokehold.
(In case it wasn't mentioned - he was selling cigarettes illegally on the street. Which is very common in NYC. A pack is $12 or more due to state and city taxes. People buy them in Jersey are elsewhere and sell them for $8 on the street. Everytime I walk to the grocery market I pass two people muttering "Newports, Marlboro's ..eight dollars." These people don't pose a threat and are as common as pigeons in the less wealthy areas of all boroughs.)
Quote:Too hard for me to believe.. If you can talk, you can breathe..
What I think happened is that the weight of 4 officers on his back, combined with his health issues caused his death. But I agree that the choke hold should have never been used and they need to outlaw it..
Quote:I agree completely. But the man was pleading and gasping for air until he lost consciousness. Obviously he could breathe while talking….. until he couldn't anymore.
He wasn't a violent criminal and nothing about the situation called for a chokehold.
(In case it wasn't mentioned - he was selling cigarettes illegally on the street. Which is very common in NYC. A pack is $12 or more due to state and city taxes. People buy them in Jersey are elsewhere and sell them for $8 on the street. Everytime I walk to the grocery market I pass two people muttering "Newports, Marlboro's ..eight dollars." These people don't pose a threat and are as common as pigeons in the less wealthy areas of all boroughs.)
The coroner ruled his death a homocide.
All the equivocation about his strained efforts to tell the officers that they were choking him to death are idiotic. He was murdered in cold blood on film, but since he was murdered by a group of police officers it was deemed lawful.
Quote:Too many holes in this case for me. He resisted arrest, it was unnecessary use of force, the choke hold was banned by police but its not illegal. The hold itself is still being taught by police academies. The guy was yelling that he couldn't breathe, yet, you need to draw breath in order to continuously tell someone that you can't breathe.
He was severely overweight with heart and health problems. It could have gone either way I think. Yes, they should have indicted the cop and to investigate even further, but no way they would have convicted him for homicide or murder. I think he did himself in by resisting arrest. Its a big mess..
Quote:I don't know how I feel about it. I'm not a fan of choke-holds, and I've never had to use one. On the same note, I have been in situations where a choke-hold would have been less harmful than the outcome I chose, but I chose not to use the choke-hold because there's a very small chance that something like this happens.
When a man that big doesn't want to go to jail, someone usually has to get hurt. Sometimes, there are no other alternatives. This isn't a video game. I promise you that passive resistance is a very difficult thing to overcome with a person of his size. They had dealt with him before and warned him previously. Stupid law? Maybe but it's still a legal arrest. When they decided that he had to go to jail, he had to go to jail.
Besides, it appears like he released the choke-hold before he even said he couldn't breathe. Am I mistaken there? How much of his lack-of-breathing is because of his physical condition and that he continues to resist arrest?
The paramedic checked his pulse and that was it from what I read. They left him lying on the ground. At one point the cop who put the choke hold on waved at a camera as the man lay on the side walk. Seems like more should have been done if he is laying there not responding.
Quote:Too hard for me to believe.. If you can talk, you can breathe..
What I think happened is that the weight of 4 officers on his back, combined with his health issues caused his death. But I agree that the choke hold should have never been used and they need to outlaw it..
I think saying I can't breath is he is struggling for air. They determined that the choke hold was a reason for his death (the reason, probably not, but it was a reason).
Quote:I agree completely. But the man was pleading and gasping for air until he lost consciousness. Obviously he could breathe while talking….. until he couldn't anymore.
He wasn't a violent criminal and nothing about the situation called for a chokehold.
(In case it wasn't mentioned - he was selling cigarettes illegally on the street. Which is very common in NYC. A pack is $12 or more due to state and city taxes. People buy them in Jersey are elsewhere and sell them for $8 on the street. Everytime I walk to the grocery market I pass two people muttering "Newports, Marlboro's ..eight dollars." These people don't pose a threat and are as common as pigeons in the less wealthy areas of all boroughs.)
Exactly. This is where I have to strongly disagree with JagNGeorgia.