Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:This is why guys like Belichick get asked better questions, he doesn't not validate dumb questions with a proper response.. DC answers questions like he owes something to the media. He gets this scared cowardly look and it drives me nuts, he has zero confidence. I like a guy with a slight edge

Caldwell is pretty good with the media. He never gives anything away and is good at outlining his thought process to everyone.

Cook.Cook.Cook.

I just don't get it. Why use a top 5 pick on a RB? Cook and Fournette are good but the defensive talent at the top of this draft is elite.

 

Not to mention how deep this draft is at RB. You can find a very good starting RB in the 3rd round of this draft. 

Quote:I just don't get it. Why use a top 5 pick on a RB? Cook and Fournette are good but the defensive talent at the top of this draft is elite.


Not to mention how deep this draft is at RB. You can find a very good starting RB in the 3rd round of this draft.

We haven't been able to find much of anything lately drafting. I will be happy if we find a good player at 4, even if the same position has more good players later in the draft. We just have to make sure that we don't sit back saying "oh great another bust" 3 years later

Quote:We haven't been able to find much of anything lately drafting. I will be happy if we find a good player at 4, even if the same position has more good players later in the draft. We just have to make sure that we don't sit back saying "oh great another bust" 3 years later

How does this make sense?

 

There is elite defensive players in this draft at the top. History shows you that you can easily find very good RBs later in the draft. It happens every single year. That's not the case with pass rushers or defensive players. 

 

In about 5 years, when Ramsey is still an elite corner, the Cowboys will have run Elliott into the ground and have to find another RB.

Quote:How does this make sense?

 

There is elite defensive players in this draft at the top. History shows you that you can easily find very good RBs later in the draft. It happens every single year. That's not the case with pass rushers or defensive players. 

 

In about 5 years, when Ramsey is still an elite corner, the Cowboys will have run Elliott into the ground and have to find another RB.

 

history does NOT show that.

 

If it was that easy - we would have the RB position solved.  In 4 years, we do not.  Would you be happy if we drafted Fred Taylor 4th overall?  I would.  I don't care if another team gets lucky and gets Edgerrin James in the 6th.

 

 

We tried with late round picks like Denard and Storm Johnson.  We tried with high prized free agents like Toby Gearhart and Chris Ivory.  We even tried with a high 2nd round pick in TJ Yeldon.  And guess what?  We can't run the ball.  The RBs aren't special, even with a decent hole sometimes they are not gamebreakers.

 

Getting a RB isn't as easy as you think.

 

There are good players from mid and later rounds at every position, not just running back.

 

An elite player is an elite player.  We have to just HIT on our first and second round picks.  That's the first part.  THEN we can discuss whether we could've gotten better value.  The way we have been drafting - I would be happy if we just got a very good player.

Quote:history does NOT show that.

 

If it was that easy - we would have the RB position solved.  In 4 years, we do not.  Would you be happy if we drafted Fred Taylor 4th overall?  I would.  I don't care if another team gets lucky and gets Edgerrin James in the 6th.

 

 

We tried with late round picks like Denard and Storm Johnson.  We tried with high prized free agents like Toby Gearhart and Chris Ivory.  We even tried with a high 2nd round pick in TJ Yeldon.  And guess what?  We can't run the ball.  The RBs aren't special, even with a decent hole sometimes they are not gamebreakers.

 

Getting a RB isn't as easy as you think.

 

There are good players from mid and later rounds at every position, not just running back.

 

An elite player is an elite player.  We have to just HIT on our first and second round picks.  That's the first part.  THEN we can discuss whether we could've gotten better value.  The way we have been drafting - I would be happy if we just got a very good player.

Huh? Edge was the 4th overall pick. Not drafted in the 6th round. Also.... check out the following below. Although you are correct that there are good players taken in the later rounds, it's harder to find pass rushers later than it is RBs. Someone posted this list from the top rushers from this year.

 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Running backs taken after round 1                        Running backs taken in the first round

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Leveon Bell - Round 2                                               Zeke Elliot - Pick 4

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Lesean McCoy- Round 2                                          Mark Ingram- Pick 28

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Jordan Howard- Round 5                                         Todd Gurley- Pick 10      

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Jay Ajayi - Round 5                                                   Melvin Gordon- Pick 15

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Demarco Murray - Round 3                                      Johnathen Stewart- Pick 13

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">David Johnson - Round 3

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Lamar Miller - Round 4

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Devonta Freeman - Round 4

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Legarette Blount - Undrafted

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Frank Gore - Round 3

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Carlos Hyde- Round 2

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Spencer Ware- Round 6

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Isiah Crowell - Undrafted

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Jeremy Hill- Round 2

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Latavious Murray- Round 6

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Matt Forte- Round 2

Coughlin hit with Fred Taylor (and was going after Enis,) so if he feels as highly of one of these RBs as he did back then - then it's certainly possible.

 

Coughlin is more of a needs guy, and he certainly hasn't been shy speaking about the need for a better run game.

 

It may not be with the first round, but it's certainly going to be addressed.

Quote:Coughlin hit with Fred Taylor (and was going after Enis,) so if he feels as highly of one of these RBs as he did back then - then it's certainly possible.

 

Coughlin is more of a needs guy, and he certainly hasn't been shy speaking about the need for a better run game.

 

It may not be with the first round, but it's certainly going to be addressed.

I 100% agree. I think it will be round 3.

 

This draft is so deep with RBs though. Was Fred's draft considered deep at the time? That probably would've played into his decision.

I feel like Fournette is a special back, and a special back  should be taken when you have the opportunity.

Quote:Coughlin hit with Fred Taylor (and was going after Enis,) so if he feels as highly of one of these RBs as he did back then - then it's certainly possible.

 

Coughlin is more of a needs guy, and he certainly hasn't been shy speaking about the need for a better run game.

 

It may not be with the first round, but it's certainly going to be addressed.

Enis.... whew... glad we missed that one.

Quote:Huh? Edge was the 4th overall pick. Not drafted in the 6th round. Also.... check out the following below. Although you are correct that there are good players taken in the later rounds, it's harder to find pass rushers later than it is RBs. Someone posted this list from the top rushers from this year.

 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Running backs taken after round 1                        Running backs taken in the first round

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Leveon Bell - Round 2                                               Zeke Elliot - Pick 4

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Lesean McCoy- Round 2                                          Mark Ingram- Pick 28

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Jordan Howard- Round 5                                         Todd Gurley- Pick 10      

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Jay Ajayi - Round 5                                                   Melvin Gordon- Pick 15

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Demarco Murray - Round 3                                      Johnathen Stewart- Pick 13

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">David Johnson - Round 3

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Lamar Miller - Round 4

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Devonta Freeman - Round 4

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Legarette Blount - Undrafted

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Frank Gore - Round 3

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Carlos Hyde- Round 2

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Spencer Ware- Round 6

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Isiah Crowell - Undrafted

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Jeremy Hill- Round 2

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Latavious Murray- Round 6

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Matt Forte- Round 2

 

ok well let's look at pass rushers shall we (top 10 sack getters last year):

 

lorenzo alexander UDFA

markus golden - 2nd round

danielle hunter - 3rd round

cliff avril - 3rd round

cameron wake - UDFA

chandler jones - 21st overall

ryan kerrigan 16th

 

 

vic beasley, von miller, and khalil mack are top 10 picks

 

not to mention 

UDFA's like James Harrison (DPOY in the past), Michael Bennett, etc.  You find guys where you find them, and I think if you are pretty sure you have the ability to draft a special player, TAKE HIM.  They are hard to find.  Regardless of position.   Of course - if you think there are 5 special players at that position - then you should trade down or take someone else... but I hate the "it's super easy to find a RB in the later rounds" argument because we (the jaguars) are evidence that it's not the case!

 

 

You could also easily make the argument that you can get your pass rusher in the 2nd or later.

 

even on this team - the top 5 pick was easily outplayed by our 3rd round pass rusher Ngakoue.

Quote:Huh? Edge was the 4th overall pick. Not drafted in the 6th round. 

 

you misunderstood - i never claimed edge was a 6th round pick.

 

i'm saying I would be happy to draft a great RB 1st overall - even if another team gets a great player at that position in the 6th round.  

 

teams get lucky all the time.  

Just a question...apart from power...what does Fournette do better than Christian McCaffrey?

Quote:Just a question...apart from power...what does Fournette do better than Christian McCaffrey?

 

power and breaking tackles is a huge part of being a RB.

 

if you want a guy that's going to get the ball 25 times and run behind his offensive line and wear down the defense, Fournette is by far the better prospect.

 

If you're the patriots and have an accurate QB - McCaffrey can probably play longer and accumulate way more yards and touchdowns etc.

 

 

I think McCaffrey is special as long as he has a good, accurate QB throwing him the ball.  Bortles throwing at his ankles would make him quite pointless.

Quote:power and breaking tackles is a huge part of being a RB.


if you want a guy that's going to get the ball 25 times and run behind his offensive line and wear down the defense, Fournette is by far the better prospect.


If you're the patriots and have an accurate QB - McCaffrey can probably play longer and accumulate way more yards and touchdowns etc.



I think McCaffrey is special as long as he has a good, accurate QB throwing him the ball. Bortles throwing at his ankles would make him quite pointless.

No doubt. Probably a better pass blocker too which is important.

Since 1999, I'm only seeing about 10 people that have run a 4.51 or faster that weighed 240 lbs or more.  Not one of them was a running back.

Christian McCaffrey with a 6.57 3 cone. The second fastest time by a running back since 2003.


Elite. I'm all in on him now

Quote:Christian McCaffrey with a 6.57 3 cone. The second fastest time by a running back since 2003.


Elite. I'm all in on him now

All you had to do is watched some of his games and you would of been all in before.

Quote:All you had to do is watched some of his games and you would of been all in before.

I've seen a good few of his games but would have had Cook and Fournette ahead of him all year. If you put a gun to my head now and told me to pick one of them I'd probably pick McCaffrey now. Full package.


No way he makes it to us now though I'd say