A UK Jaguars fan here who remembers Manchester United appointing a certain Alex Ferguson as the manager of his soccer team.
My God, we were awful at first. Fans were shouting for him to be sacked. And then what happened? Four years of being dreadful. 25 years of success. The guy built and built to get it all right.
It doesn't happen overnight.
Discuss anyone?
Alternatively you can be patient and still end with a turd at the end of it.
Quote:A UK Jaguars fan here who remembers Manchester United appointing a certain Alex Ferguson as the manager of his soccer team.
My God, we were awful at first. Fans were shouting for him to be sacked. And then what happened? Four years of being dreadful. 25 years of success. The guy built and built to get it all right.
It doesn't happen overnight.
Discuss anyone?
His second season was far from dreadful in terms of wins and losses, and the other of the first four years were somewhat respectable (at least compared to the Jags). I believe in patience, but at a certain point there has to be some tangible evidence of improvement in the form of wins. Look at Chuck Noll. He went 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8 before the Steelers went 11-3. Each year the team built on the previous seasons' win total.
Quote:His second season was far from dreadful in terms of wins and losses, and the other of the first four years were somewhat respectable (at least compared to the Jags). I believe in patience, but at a certain point there has to be some tangible evidence of improvement in the form of wins. Look at Chuck Noll. He went 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8 before the Steelers went 11-3. Each year the team built on the previous seasons' win total.
He finished 2nd in his second season id take that all day, even in his first season he took them from 21st to 11th
Quote:A UK Jaguars fan here who remembers Manchester United appointing a certain Alex Ferguson as the manager of his soccer team.
My God, we were awful at first. Fans were shouting for him to be sacked. And then what happened? Four years of being dreadful. 25 years of success. The guy built and built to get it all right.
It doesn't happen overnight.
Discuss anyone?
I'm able to be patient with this rebuild because I see signs of young talent being added to the roster. While we can't predict the future - I feel Caldwell may be the GM who rights the ship in Jacksonville. The sheer number of promising players under the age of 25 is impressive IMO.
The problem with many Jags fans is that they tried to be patient with prior rebuilds only to watch them fail. As a result - they are too jaded to have hope in the new regime or can't see the signs of young talent being acquired for long term sustainability. I sympathize with them - but remain optimistic that next season will reveal major progress.
How long do we have to wait AND what will we see when the wait is over?
UK Jagfan. Manchester United simply goes out and pays the most money for the best players. They are the New York Yankees of the soccer world. The problem in the NFL is that we can't simply pay players over a certain limitation (salary cap). Furthermore, the Jacksonville is in the lower echelon of capital markets here in the US so we tend to be cheaper then other cities.
to illustrate my point above, Manchester United has a total salary of $164m ($6.5m per player) whereas Southampton has a total salary of $47m ($1.9m per player) -- there's the reason why Man U wins.
we've been patient since 1999. THATS the issue
Quote:His second season was far from dreadful in terms of wins and losses, and the other of the first four years were somewhat respectable (at least compared to the Jags). I believe in patience, but at a certain point there has to be some tangible evidence of improvement in the form of wins. Look at Chuck Noll. He went 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8 before the Steelers went 11-3. Each year the team built on the previous seasons' win total.
If it was 1-13,1-13, 6-8, 11-3, what is the difference? There were no playoff expectations for the 1st two years, so having a bad record actually benefits us.
Quote:we've been patient since 1999. THATS the issue
2005 and 2007 were nice years!
Quote:2005 and 2007 were nice years!
2007 was great... The wheels pretty much started falling off since then...
Quote:we've been patient since 1999. THATS the issue
You say patient as if you have any control. The only thing you can control is how impatient you are. If you're talking about Khan being impatient. Firing a head coach year 1.5 of a 3-4 year rebuilding process is just dumb. So fire the coach, and now what? Start the rebuild over? What if the new coach has a successful season in 2015? Did the new coach REALLY have anything to do with the turnaround, or is the original plan working?
Quote:we've been patient since 1999. THATS the issue
But what are you going to do? Fire everyone and start over AGAIN? We just hired these guys less than 2 years ago.
Quote:That's a false choice...
You kind of left me hanging there. Why is that a false choice?
Quote:You kind of left me hanging there. Why is that a false choice?
Because there are other options than "firing everyone and starting all over".
You can keep the GM and the head coach, and revamp the coordinators... You can Keep the GM, the HC, the DC, and revamp the OC, etc...
I just don't like the hyperbole of those defending the current situation by painting a false picture that we must blow up everything to rebuild anew...
There are alot of good things about this team. There appears to be some modification that needs to occur. Like much in life there is something in the middle that needs to happen.
I don't think the coaching staff the way it is built right now is gonna be successfull. I also don't think we need to fire everyone and start all over. Thus a false choice...
See, we all had hope after the 2008 season. Remember everyone saying we were going to win the Super bowl after that great 2007 season? It didn't happen, and all of us said, it was an off year, we played into the hype, blah blah blah. Then the next year happened. Then we said, well, they just need a couple more players because they wasted their draft picks on Harvey/Groves. Then that didn't happen, and they were both busts, so we blamed it on that. Then finally, Gene came in, and we were patient with him, gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Well that didn't happen either. We got excited for Caldwell and Co., and we keep getting the same excuses of a rebuild and next year. See the trend? We are over it, they need in place a coaching staff that is experienced, and knows what to do with a football team. Caldwell is doing fine. The players aren't translating to Bradley and his vision, or even the coordinators for that matter. They look lost on the field, and they are baffled when they don't score or make plays.
Coughlin built an expansion team in 2 years, and they were in the playoffs consistently, and winning those games as well. The funny thing is, he started from scratch literally, and his records were never this horrid.
Quote:You say patient as if you have any control. The only thing you can control is how impatient you are. If you're talking about Khan being impatient. Firing a head coach year 1.5 of a 3-4 year rebuilding process is just dumb. So fire the coach, and now what? Start the rebuild over? What if the new coach has a successful season in 2015? Did the new coach REALLY have anything to do with the turnaround, or is the original plan working?
of course we have no control....well...we DO as a fanbase, but the end result of that would cost us our team in Jax....but....the FANS as a whole fund the NFL. these rich overpaid coaches and players.....so when they SUCK...and get to stick around 3-4 years and SUCK, just because some folks feel like they should automatically get 3 years before you evaluate them...(which BTW doesn't fly in ANY other profession) ........doesn't mean we are just going to standby and not complain or be angry at the leadership on the team. Everyone has a different opinion about it. Sure. But how many of these same folks who don't want to fire Dave or Gus now.....were saying "IN GENE WE TRUST?"
lol. they wont admit it now, of course.
Quote:See, we all had hope after the 2008 season. Remember everyone saying we were going to win the Super bowl after that great 2007 season? It didn't happen, and all of us said, it was an off year, we played into the hype, blah blah blah. Then the next year happened. Then we said, well, they just need a couple more players because they wasted their draft picks on Harvey/Groves. Then that didn't happen, and they were both busts, so we blamed it on that. Then finally, Gene came in, and we were patient with him, gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Well that didn't happen either. We got excited for Caldwell and Co., and we keep getting the same excuses of a rebuild and next year. See the trend? We are over it, they need in place a coaching staff that is experienced, and knows what to do with a football team. Caldwell is doing fine. The players aren't translating to Bradley and his vision, or even the coordinators for that matter. They look lost on the field, and they are baffled when they don't score or make plays.
Coughlin built an expansion team in 2 years, and they were in the playoffs consistently, and winning those games as well. The funny thing is, he started from scratch literally, and his records were never this horrid.
exactly! we had the bottom feeders of the NFL from every team in the expansion draft....drafted Freddy T and Tony....and were ONE game away from the Super Bowl. yet, folks use the same excuse for us sucking for 6 years in a row. How does that work? lol
Quote:of course we have no control....well...we DO as a fanbase, but the end result of that would cost us our team in Jax....but....the FANS as a whole fund the NFL. these rich overpaid coaches and players.....so when they SUCK...and get to stick around 3-4 years and SUCK, just because some folks feel like they should automatically get 3 years before you evaluate them...(which BTW doesn't fly in ANY other profession) ........doesn't mean we are just going to standby and not complain or be angry at the leadership on the team. Everyone has a different opinion about it. Sure. But how many of these same folks who don't want to fire Dave or Gus now.....were saying "IN GENE WE TRUST?"
lol. they wont admit it now, of course.
Quote:exactly! we had the bottom feeders of the NFL from every team in the expansion draft....drafted Freddy T and Tony....and were ONE game away from the Super Bowl. yet, folks use the same excuse for us sucking for 6 years in a row. How does that work? lol
Still though. What exactly is your solution?
Caldwell/Bradly was the solution last time. So what is it now? What would you do to guarantee success?