Quote:What people fail to grasp is that in the nfl you are supposed to put together a quality product every year. Because people are paying for it. "Youth and inexperience" should not be an excuse. We went this route for whatever reason, and so far we arent seeing any results.
The good teams didnt get good by "building through the draft". That's a huge myth. The good teams got good by lucking into a game changing signal caller.
The packers? They TRADED for brett favre. Lucked into Rodgers late in the first round. Ted thompson has been abysmal at drafting non-skill position players.
The colts made a 50/50 call on manning vs leaf, guessed right. Then they tanked for the surest thing at the position in a generation. I think we all know how awful grigson is at evaluating talent.
The pats? Boy are they fortunate brady turned out to be the greatest late round pick in history. And they never seem to get quality play out of all those picks they collect. They arent shy about spending in FA.
Denver literally bought a super bowl caliber team.
Seattle acquired Lynch from the bills, and tried to address qb in many ways before stumbling into russell wilson. They were mediocre before that, regardless of who was under center.
I agree. The Broncos bought their Super Bowl team, no doubt. Ever since they bought manning and others they have been 13-3, went to a Super Bowl . They will continue to be dominant by adding good FA again next year.
Quote:The team we just got destroyed by, built the strength of their team (offensive line, running game, passing game) through the draft. Seattle and San Fran built through the draft. It's a painful process, but if you have the right GM and coaching staff, it is very possible. I think we have the GM to do it, now it's time for Gus to step up.
Bullseye's post was super quality but I think this proves the biggest point here. Just look at the team that beat us yesterday and look at how all there players were accumulated.
Again people, I know it's bad right now but this is just the process and were we are right now. I'm not sure how most of y'all don't understand the shape of this roster in 2013 when Caldwell arrived. I understand he has built the current roster but did you guys want to keep the 2-14 roster at that current time? That was Gene's finished product. We are still in the middle of rebuilding the roster. I'm not going to say that it will work out because I don't have a crystal ball but I do know that enough time has elapsed to properly judge if it will or not.
Calling Bortles a bust after 7 games, 1 1/2 seasons in the rebuild is not working, building through the draft doesn't work.....
I gets worse and worse around here everyday.
Quote:Seattle acquired Lynch from the bills, and tried to address qb in many ways before stumbling into russell wilson. They were mediocre before that, regardless of who was under center.
The Seahawks
drafted
Richard Sherman in the 5th - Pro Bowler
KJ Wright in the 4th
Byron Maxwell in the 6th
Malcom Smith in the 7th - SB MVP
Kam Chancellor in the 5th - Pro Bowler
Who's calling Bortles a bust? I really think it's the coaches.
Quote:I agree. The Broncos bought their Super Bowl team, no doubt. Ever since they bought manning and others they have been 13-3, went to a Super Bowl . They will continue to be dominant by adding good FA again next year.
They eventually won't be able to sign any FAs. They already have signed Ware, Manning, and Talib to big contracts. I think that Denver will suck for a while when Manning retires.
Quote:Who's calling Bortles a bust? I really think it's the coaches.
The one thing I do like about you trolls is that you guys can create thought provoking responses from some of the highly esteemed posters here. So there's that.
Quote:They eventually won't be able to sign any FAs. They already have signed Ware, Manning, and Talib to big contracts. I think that Denver will suck for a while when Manning retires.
That is one of the rare instances where signing tons of free agents worked and thats only because a hall of fame qb was sitting out there in free agency. Brees is the only other time I can think of a qb of that caliber was available like that.
Quote:The one thing I do like about you trolls is that you guys can create thought provoking responses from some of the highly esteemed posters here. So there's that.
Really? I'm a troll bc I don't agree with you on Bradley? I think BB is going to be a stud. The meltdown has been on defense the last two weeks. That's on Bradley and Babich. Get over yourself. Should I start saying you are an apologist?
Quote:Really? I'm a troll bc I don't agree with you on Bradley? I think BB is going to be a stud. The meltdown has been on defense the last two weeks. That's on Bradley and Babich. Get over yourself. Should I start saying you are an apologist?
Lol why would you say the coaches is calling him a bust but you are not? You are not making much sense right now.
I never brought up coaching you just did.
This thread is about building through the draft and my comment was geared towards that. If you are not seeing people on this board calling him a bust then I have no clue what you are reading. There is a decent faction (although not intelligent) calling him a bust. It's in almost every thread here lol.
The draft takes time. The OP was extremely wrong in saying building through the draft. He cited Seattle as not building through the draft lol. That's who they built their team. They are the model everyone is trying to follow right now. Dallas has built their whole o-line through the draft. The Pats core and has always been built through the draft. I'm not certain were you stand or what point you are making in this thread but I'm saying building through the draft takes time.
Quote:Lol why would you say the coaches is calling him a bust but you are not? You are not making much sense right now.
I never brought up coaching you just did.
This thread is about building through the draft and my comment was geared towards that. If you are not seeing people on this board calling him a bust then I have no clue what you are reading. There is a decent faction (although not intelligent) calling him a bust. It's in almost every thread here lol.
The draft takes time. The OP was extremely wrong in saying building through the draft. He cited Seattle as not building through the draft lol. That's who they built their team. They are the model everyone is trying to follow right now. Dallas has built their whole o-line through the draft. The Pats core and has always been built through the draft. I'm not certain were you stand or what point you are making in this thread but I'm saying building through the draft takes time.
He didn't say the coaches are calling Bortles a bust. He was saying that he doesn't get why people are calling Bortles a bust, because he thinks the coaches are responsible for his struggles.
Quote:The Seahawks drafted
Richard Sherman in the 5th - Pro Bowler
KJ Wright in the 4th
Byron Maxwell in the 6th
Malcom Smith in the 7th - SB MVP
Kam Chancellor in the 5th - Pro Bowler
You miss the point. They werent a quality team until stumbling into russell wilson
Quote:Lol why would you say the coaches is calling him a bust but you are not? You are not making much sense right now.
I never brought up coaching you just did.
This thread is about building through the draft and my comment was geared towards that. If you are not seeing people on this board calling him a bust then I have no clue what you are reading. There is a decent faction (although not intelligent) calling him a bust. It's in almost every thread here lol.
The draft takes time. The OP was extremely wrong in saying building through the draft. He cited Seattle as not building through the draft lol. That's who they built their team. They are the model everyone is trying to follow right now. Dallas has built their whole o-line through the draft. The Pats core and has always been built through the draft. I'm not certain were you stand or what point you are making in this thread but I'm saying building through the draft takes time.
Seattle wasnt good before wilson! Who they lucked into btw. They traded a second rnd pick fir charlie whitehurst and gave flynn a bunch of money. How ppl forget.
Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='http://members.jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2014-11-09/story/inside-game-cowboys-draft-picks-vs-jags-free-agents-was-no?utm_source=cx'>http://members.jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2014-11-09/story/inside-game-cowboys-draft-picks-vs-jags-free-agents-was-no?utm_source=cx</a>
Our first rnd left tackle was also destroyed by freaking jeremy mincey. So yeah....
What this article fails to mention is how we got nothing out of our draft picks yesterday(except for denard who also had a costly fumble)
Quote:Our first rnd left tackle was also destroyed by freaking jeremy mincey. So yeah....
Your point?
Joeckel getting beat by Mincy does not negate the importance of the draft.
If your point is teams should use free agency and trades to supplement
free agency the draft, then I agree completely.
If, however, your point is that if you want to build a winning team, it is preferable to emphasize free agency over drafting, I strongly disagree.
Oakland went heavily into free agency, and they have yet to win this year.
Quote:Your point?
Joeckel getting beat by Mincy does not negate the importance of the draft.
If your point is teams should use free agency and trades to supplement free agency, then I agree completely.
If, however, your point is that if you want to build a winning team, it is preferable to emphasize free agency over drafting, I strongly disagree.
Oakland went heavily into free agency, and they have yet to win this year.
Im saying that there can be a better mix of picks and free agents as long as you have your qb, it doesnt matter.
Obviously you need to use the draft to fill your roster, but you dont need to rely on it completely. This is more of a critique of the offensive side of the ball than the defensive side obviously, though a veteran safety would have been nice to see.
Quote:Im saying that there can be a better mix of picks and free agents as long as you have your qb, it doesnt matter.
Obviously you need to use the draft to fill your roster, but you dont need to rely on it completely. This is more of a critique of the offensive side of the ball than the defensive side obviously, though a veteran safety would have been nice to see.
This seems a more reasoned stance than when you started, but I am left to wonder what free agents you would have brought in on the offensive side of the ball.
The team brought in Beadles. It tried to bring in Alex Mack and Cleveland matched the offer. It also tried to bring in Sanders, but he opted to sign elsewhere.
Who would you have signed on the offensive side of the ball that would come here and made a difference?
The best way to do it is build through the draft. Find your core pieces in the draft and complement them with free agents. This is the best way. But the core has to come from the draft and history has shown this time and time again. All these teams that lucked into a qb drafted them with the exception on Denver and New Orleans and even the knowledgeable people here can attest to the fact that it is very rare those caliber of players reach free agency.
Even the free agents that we try to sign; how do you think they came into the league? 95% of them were drafted. We want to be the team drafting Julius Thomas, Demayrius Thomas, Revis, Sanders, KJ Wright etc....
We want to be that team who has to make hard decisions on who to keep and who to let walk in free agency not the team being major players every year to field a decent team unless we're swinging for the fence for a super bowl. This is process that every team who wants long term success goes through. Really it's all on Caldwell at the end of the day. Can he find the talent. I think he can.
Quote:This seems a more reasoned stance than when you started, but I am left to wonder what free agents you would have brought in on the offensive side of the ball.
The team brought in Beadles. It tried to bring in Alex Mack and Cleveland matched the offer. It also tried to bring in Sanders, but he opted to sign elsewhere.
Who would you have signed on the offensive side of the ball that would come here and made a difference?
I think when we talk about bringing in guys to make a difference, we have to be reasonable. Ive thrown decker's name out there. Is he elite? No. Is he decent? Yes. And considering the inconsistency of the rookies, id have taken the veteran experience.
In reality, there are few elite players in FA. Not the point though. I think we underestimate the importance of guys who have at least played a game at this level. Experience alone would give them a leg up on guys like hurns/lee.
Youth isnt the problem. The problem is that the youth we have doesnt have enough experience, particularly on th offensive side of the ball. Putting that many 1st/2nd year players on the field at once wasnt the best strategy imo. I just dont see who it helps. If you throw a handful of rookies in with more experienced guys, my guess is there's less of a chance of the game being "too big" for each individual. Veteran players hold the younger guys accountable. You see it all the time with other teams, where a veteran goes up to a rookie who just made a mistake and discusses it with them.
Gus talks a lot about these guys needing to trust each other. I imagine it's harder for a rookie to trust another rookie than a guy who has played 3 or 4 years in the league.
The amount of cap space we have certainly would have allowed us to sign more veterans, for depth if nothing else. Wouldnt have crippled us financially at all.