Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

We are all experiencing loss fatigue. 

 

A 5-11 season followed by 2-14, followed by an 0-8 start and a 4-12 finish, followed by an 0-6 start and our current 1-8 record is enough to sap the morale of even the heartiest fans.

 

However, in the ashes of these losses, we are seeing something very important.

 

Player development.

 

I know we aren't seeing the wins, so it's hard to see and harder to justify.  But the young nucleus of this team is getting better.

 

Let's start with last year's draft class.

 

Luke Joeckel, while not Boselli level dominant, is playing better than he did pre injury last year, and even better than he played early in the year.

 

Dwayne Gratz got benched a few weeks back, but since his return he has performed better than he has before.

 

Denard Robinson was an ultra raw rookie transitioning from a college option QB with nerve damage in his hand.  Now he has rushed for over 300 yards in the last three games and he is an explosive threat at RB.  Had he not tripped, he'd have a lot more yardage.

 

Demetrius McCray was a late round draft pick who is now starting at a decent level-I'd say at least higher than Dave Thomas.

 

This year?

 

Most see the potential greatness in Bortles, and understand he will go through his lumps.  Yeah he threw two pick 6's against Miami last week.  Guess what?  Phillip freaking Rivers threw three picks against Miami this week.

 

Allen Robinson is on pace for 76 catches, which is certainly a respectable number.

 

Brandon Linder is a quality guard right now, and given good health, will be a good G for us for many years.

 

Telvin Smith had his ups and downs yesterday, but has proven able to do great things, as evidenced by his AFC Defensive player of the week award against Cleveland.

 

Luke Bowanko has exceeded expectations and is part of a once dormant, now productive running game. He may be our C of the future.

 

Allen Hurns has scored 5 TDs and is averaging 16.1 ypc.  He's on pace for 52 catches.

 

Are there some "disappointments?"  Yes.  Are there players that still need more time to develop?  Of course.  I hate including him here, but Cyprien continues to miss some run fits. Marqise Lee hasn't seemed to put it together enough to have the confidence of the coaches/Bortles yet.

Injury has precluded Aaron Colvin from contributing to date, but his time may be coming very soon.

Storm Johnson was inactive.

 

Now go back to Gene Smith's picks.

 

Did we get anywhere near the productivity out of his guys?  Blackmon showed flashes of brilliance, but he could never stay on the field because of substance issues.  Gabbert?  Alualu?  Cox? He had his moments but could never stay healthy.  Maybe Terrence Knighton would have fit in with the classes here in terms of immediate productivity.

 

But maybe I'm being a homer and seeing things through teal colored glasses.

 

Here is a quote from a Bengals fan from PFT.

 

Quote: 

stoneydog1000 says: Nov 2, 2014 5:10 PM

as a Bengals fan, i liked the fight in the Jags. They are young with lots of talent. They are going to get better and better. Jag fans have alot to look forward to. and, as a long suffering Bengals fan I salute you.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201.../#comments

 

Just hold on, guys and gals.

 

It's getting there.

I agree, even if we finish 1-15 this year this is definitely a better team than last year.


The frustrating thing to watch is that all these players that have developed cant all seem to play good for one game, there always seems to be 2 that let us down. Telvin has looked great when he's played all year, yesterday though he looked pretty bad, Cyprien yesterday also had a bad game.


It doesnt sound like a lot but those 2 gave up some massive plays between them and that can be the difference between Winning and Losing.


I definitely feel alot more positive about the team, I know it's been said before but it's true, we just need that game where it all clicks, hopefully it can be next week in Wembley (as I'm there) but I have a feeling it might be the Colts game.

Excellent post, Bullseye...I only have a single nit to pick...Alualu, while pretty much a disappointment and overdrafted by Smith, has been a solid cog on our current defensive line. Not a star, hence he was overdrafted, but steady and productive in his current role. 

 

Jim

I know I harp on this but....

 

You can only improve so much in a year based on the new CBA.  Coaching time is down from even a decade ago.  When you point at other teams making better turnarounds, it is because they didn't have to complete overhaul the core of their team.  The choice to completely rebuild does take more time then us fans would like.

 

Considering the absolute meltdown on special teams, it is remarkable that we were even in this game during the 4th quarter.

Quote:Excellent post, Bullseye...I only have a single nit to pick...Alualu, while pretty much a disappointment and overdrafted by Smith, has been a solid cog on our current defensive line. Not a star, hence he was overdrafted, but steady and productive in his current role. 

 

Jim

As a backup.

 

BTW...LTNR.  Welcome back.

Thanks, Bullseye. I appreciate the welcome. Kind of tiptoeing back in. The staggering negativity has inspired me to try to add some cogent commentary. I can only hope to come up to your level...

 

As to Alualu's "backup" role...I'd call it "in the rotation role." All good, and we can agree to disagree. He WAS way overdrafted.

 

Jim

Quote:Thanks, Bullseye. I appreciate the welcome. Kind of tiptoeing back in. The staggering negativity has inspired me to try to add some cogent commentary. I can only hope to come up to your level...

 

As to Alualu's "backup" role...I'd call it "in the rotation role." All good, and we can agree to disagree. He WAS way overdrafted.

 

Jim

Don't let the negativity get to you.  Given the poor results, it's to be expected, even if many are missing what is happening with the rookie development.

 

I'm wondering what you think of the OL...both individual players and overall.

 

I see them performing much better overall now than they were at the beginning of the year.

Quote:We are all experiencing loss fatigue. 

 

A 5-11 season followed by 2-14, followed by an 0-8 start and a 4-12 finish, followed by an 0-6 start and our current 1-8 record is enough to sap the morale of even the heartiest fans.

 

However, in the ashes of these losses, we are seeing something very important.

 

Player development.

 

I know we aren't seeing the wins, so it's hard to see and harder to justify.  But the young nucleus of this team is getting better.

 

Let's start with last year's draft class.

 

Luke Joeckel, while not Boselli level dominant, is playing better than he did pre injury last year, and even better than he played early in the year.

 

Dwayne Gratz got benched a few weeks back, but since his return he has performed better than he has before.

 

Denard Robinson was an ultra raw rookie transitioning from a college option QB with nerve damage in his hand.  Now he has rushed for over 300 yards in the last three games and he is an explosive threat at RB.  Had he not tripped, he'd have a lot more yardage.

 

Demetrius McCray was a late round draft pick who is now starting at a decent level-I'd say at least higher than Dave Thomas.

 

This year?

 

Most see the potential greatness in Bortles, and understand he will go through his lumps.  Yeah he threw two pick 6's against Miami last week.  Guess what?  Phillip freaking Rivers threw three picks against Miami this week.

 

Allen Robinson is on pace for 76 catches, which is certainly a respectable number.

 

Brandon Linder is a quality guard right now, and given good health, will be a good G for us for many years.

 

Telvin Smith had his ups and downs yesterday, but has proven able to do great things, as evidenced by his AFC Defensive player of the week award against Cleveland.

 

Luke Bowanko has exceeded expectations and is part of a once dormant, now productive running game. He may be our C of the future.

 

Allen Hurns has scored 5 TDs and is averaging 16.1 ypc.  He's on pace for 52 catches.

 

Are there some "disappointments?"  Yes.  Are there players that still need more time to develop?  Of course.  I hate including him here, but Cyprien continues to miss some run fits. Marqise Lee hasn't seemed to put it together enough to have the confidence of the coaches/Bortles yet.

Injury has precluded Aaron Colvin from contributing to date, but his time may be coming very soon.

Storm Johnson was inactive.

 

Now go back to Gene Smith's picks.

 

Did we get anywhere near the productivity out of his guys?  Blackmon showed flashes of brilliance, but he could never stay on the field because of substance issues.  Gabbert?  Alualu?  Cox? He had his moments but could never stay healthy.  Maybe Terrence Knighton would have fit in with the classes here in terms of immediate productivity.

 

But maybe I'm being a homer and seeing things through teal colored glasses.

 

Here is a quote from a Bengals fan from PFT.

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201.../#comments

 

Just hold on, guys and gals.

 

It's getting there.

 

 

Caldwell and the college scouting department seem to have done very well for the most part. A few people have made posts citing talent as an issue, and that perplexes me as I tend to see the situation similarly to as you outline above. 

 

You could also add someone like Ryan Davis to the above list too. SenDerrick Marks, while not a draft choice is also a good young player with not much tread on the tires. 

I'm excited, despite the losses,  because we're starting to see a football team again.

I'd rather have a QB throwing interceptions (and learning) rather than digging grass out of his mouth or throwing worm balls.

at least he's doing something rather than being a tackle dummy.

 

The QB is where it all starts and we finally have one.

I hope DRob's success is sustainable.  He, along with Allen Robinson, Hurns, Linder, Bowanko, Ryan Davis, Telvin Smith, D. Mccray are just SOME of the young talent that we're grooming here and I'm excited about that.  Being one of the losingest teams over the past 5 years, ya that stinks but the tide will turn soon

Excellent synopsis Bull and I think MJF hit the nail on the head, teams like the 90's Cowboys had quicker turn arounds because JJ could work those guys into the ground where now that precious time is very limited therefor development comes slower and at the expense of seasons

For the doubters who want proof in the midst of a bad record:

 

We have gone from a team that couldn't run the ball at all to a team that has proven to be able to consistently run the ball over the last three weeks.

 

We have gone from a team that couldn't stop anyone from scoring to a team that held the same Steelers team that has scored 12 passing TDs the past two weeks to one offensive TD.

 

We have gone from a team that had 31 sacks all of last year to 27 sacks this year with seven games left this season.

 

We have gone from a team that did not beat a team with a winning record last year to getting our one win thus far over Cleveland, who currently sits at 5-3.

 

We have gone from a team that was signing WRs off the street late last year to a team that looks like it has 2-3 good young WRs in Robinson, Hurns and Lee.

 

We need to add a little more talent.

 

We need to get our young guys some more experience.

 

We need our coaches to do better.

 

But we are making progress.

Quote:We need to get our young guys some more experience.

 

While the entirety of your post is spot on, after reflecting on the past 4 weeks of Jaguars football, this right here to me is the real "issue." I see a bunch of kids playing largely playing instinctively and relying a little too much on natural talent to try and get them through. They're still in the process of figuring out what you can and can't "get away with" in that regard and from the looks of it it's going to take the entire season for them to start really sorting it out.

 

I will say that, despite these losses, I have not enjoyed watching Jaguars football this much in a long time. Yes, losing sucks however, we have to keep things in perspective. As Bullseye said, we've gone from giving up a crapton of yards and points and getting blown out to actually being in games in the fourth quarter with a chance (however small) to win.

 

These kids will get there. I have the utmost faith in that. We're witnessing the beginning of that now and while painful at times, we have to remember that this is only just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Quote:For the doubters who want proof in the midst of a bad record:

 

We have gone from a team that couldn't run the ball at all to a team that has proven to be able to consistently run the ball over the last three weeks.

 

We have gone from a team that couldn't stop anyone from scoring to a team that held the same Steelers team that has scored 12 passing TDs the past two weeks to one offensive TD.

 

We have gone from a team that had 31 sacks all of last year to 27 sacks this year with seven games left this season.

 

We have gone from a team that did not beat a team with a winning record last year to getting our one win thus far over Cleveland, who currently sits at 5-3.

 

We have gone from a team that was signing WRs off the street late last year to a team that looks like it has 2-3 good young WRs in Robinson, Hurns and Lee.

 

We need to add a little more talent.

 

We need to get our young guys some more experience.

 

We need our coaches to do better.

 

But we are making progress.

Thats the #1 issue.

 

I think after the Bye week you are going to see less turnovers and a few more wins. If not, I expect Fisch and Babich to be let go. 

Quote:Don't let the negativity get to you.  Given the poor results, it's to be expected, even if many are missing what is happening with the rookie development.

 

I'm wondering what you think of the OL...both individual players and overall.

 

I see them performing much better overall now than they were at the beginning of the year.

I agree with you on the OL performance. They are doing what you kind of expect a line to do...gel. Let's face it, they are very young and seem to be growing up in front of our eyes. The run blocking is good to excellent and the pass blocking is pretty good too. Basically, (and I know that this has been said many times) we have a rookie (half of one game at LT last year) at LT, a journeyman at LG, a rookie at Center, a rookie at RG, and a two year undrafted player at RT. Right now, I think the results exceed the material. We've had a 100 yard rusher in the last three games (I'm giving 100 yards for the 94 to DRob yesterday). That's on him, of course, but he can't do it without pretty good blocking. 

 

If they stay healthy, I wouldn't change a thing (maybe replace Pasztor with a free-agent...altho I think his play has been good enough to keep him to save money and to keep continuity) for next year. Linder, Bowanko and Joeckel are gonna be fixtures. As we have been saying...young kids growing into their roles. Upside is huge.

 

Jim

Quote:Caldwell and the college scouting department seem to have done very well for the most part. A few people have made posts citing talent as an issue, and that perplexes me as I tend to see the situation similarly to as you outline above. 

 

You could also add someone like Ryan Davis to the above list too. SenDerrick Marks, while not a draft choice is also a good young player with not much tread on the tires. 

To be fair, Davis was brought in under Gene Smith.  I would attribute his development to this regime, though.

 

Marks is a part of the nucleus, as evidenced by his new deal.  He is still relatively young, but I wouldn't quite put him in the category of the rookies and 2nd year players.  He is further along in his development.

 

Anyway...welcome to the board and I look forward to more of your posts.

Quote:I'm excited, despite the losses,  because we're starting to see a football team again.

I'd rather have a QB throwing interceptions (and learning) rather than digging grass out of his mouth or throwing worm balls.

at least he's doing something rather than being a tackle dummy.

 

The QB is where it all starts and we finally have one.

I think we have the makings of the perfect environment for him to succeed.

 

We drafted weapons around him (ARob, DRob, M. Lee, A. Hurns).

 

We have the makings of a good OL that is improving every week.

 

As long as the players continue to develop around him, and Bortles enjoys good health, the only question is whether he will get the coaching.

 

I haven't had many problems with Fisch this year, but the first half yesterday was problematic.  As long as they keep the handcuffs off of him, I think Bortles ultimately will be fine.

Quote:I hope DRob's success is sustainable.  He, along with Allen Robinson, Hurns, Linder, Bowanko, Ryan Davis, Telvin Smith, D. Mccray are just SOME of the young talent that we're grooming here and I'm excited about that.  Being one of the losingest teams over the past 5 years, ya that stinks but the tide will turn soon

I hope it is, too.

 

To me, the one question for DRob is durability.

 

However, he bounced back from being dinged yesterday and put on 15 pounds to give him more durability.

Quote:Excellent synopsis Bull and I think MJF hit the nail on the head, teams like the 90's Cowboys had quicker turn arounds because JJ could work those guys into the ground where now that precious time is very limited therefor development comes slower and at the expense of seasons

Also, JJ, thanks to his own methods, had more picks to work with.  He was a master at trading down and identifying talent.

 

We have those things you and MJF working against us, but I like what I see thus far.

 

One of my arguments against Gene Smith is you never saw his rookies really flash ability or make many game changing plays.

 

Caldwell's guys are flashing ability.

Quote:For the doubters who want proof in the midst of a bad record:

 

We have gone from a team that couldn't run the ball at all to a team that has proven to be able to consistently run the ball over the last three weeks.

 

We have gone from a team that couldn't stop anyone from scoring to a team that held the same Steelers team that has scored 12 passing TDs the past two weeks to one offensive TD.

 

We have gone from a team that had 31 sacks all of last year to 27 sacks this year with seven games left this season.

 

We have gone from a team that did not beat a team with a winning record last year to getting our one win thus far over Cleveland, who currently sits at 5-3.

 

We have gone from a team that was signing WRs off the street late last year to a team that looks like it has 2-3 good young WRs in Robinson, Hurns and Lee.

 

We need to add a little more talent.

 

We need to get our young guys some more experience.

 

We need our coaches to do better.

 

But we are making progress.

 

And with these tangible signs, the coaching staff still gets a lot of grief.

 

I know we're trained to look at the won-loss record, and at some point Khan will, but why do the coaches not get some credit for D. Rob's incredible improvement, the tremendous increase in sacks, the weekly improvement in offensive line play, and the much more entertaining style of games we've recently seen?

 

I actually look forward to watching the games, even though I assume a loss. Now that is improvement!