Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:OK, how much longer until this rebuild is complete, realistically speaking?

 

Depends on free agency.  2-3 years with good drafting and no free agents.  1-2 years with good drafting and good free agents.  

Quote:OK, how much longer until this rebuild is complete, realistically speaking?

 

Complete as in what?

Quote:Can you name the two new LB's, WRs and gaurds please? MSW was here already, Uche, Henderson, 

 

In 2010 we had Garrard, MJD, Greg Jones, MSW, Lewis, Vince Man, Uche, Meester, Harvey, Mincey, Durant, Daryl Smith, Rasheen, Scobee, as starters. Like I said you can play musically chairs with the bottom half but those were the main contributers in 2010. That is the same team. I could care less what Middleton did because he was the bottom half. The fact remains that the only player he brought in that contibuted that year and is still relavent was Pot roast.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Jackso...ars_season

 

MSW wasn't a starter in 2007. Neither was Uche. Henderson was traded before the 2010 season. I was wrong about Durant and Manuwai, they both started about half the games, but both safeties were new and both DEs (McCray and Spicer vs. Mincey and Harvey/Lane.


 

You named 14 out of 24 (including PK & P), but Harvey was not on the 2007 team, and Mincey, MSW, and Uche were not starters. That's 14 new starters out of 24, or 13 new out of 22 if you exclude ST. How is that even close to "damn near the same roster"?

Quote:It amazes me how so many people don't understand this.

 

Basically I've thought of this team like an expansion team that started last year but didn't get extra draft picks.  That's essentially what this is.

Exactly how I view the team also.

Quote:MSW wasn't a starter in 2007. Neither was Uche. Henderson was traded before the 2010 season. I was wrong about Durant and Manuwai, they both started about half the games, but both safeties were new and both DEs (McCray and Spicer vs. Mincey and Harvey/Lane.


 

You named 14 out of 24 (including PK & P), but Harvey was not on the 2007 team, and Mincey, MSW, and Uche were not starters. That's 14 new starters out of 24, or 13 new out of 22 if you exclude ST. How is that even close to "damn near the same roster"?

Okay you win lol. If you think the talent is equal then we are done. I cant convince you other wise. 

Quote:We're not talking about who inherited the better team.  Every single person has said Gene inherited the better team so I don't know who you arguing with in regards to that point.

 

The fact is that they both completely rebuilt their teams.

That does matter lol. If one guy had a solid qb to build around when he stepped in and the other guy had to find a qb that's a big deal. There was a O-line in place already. A solid linebacker core and players capable of starting in the future. Gene had David and had pieces to start with. David did not. That is the definition of a rebuild. When the main starters or players from a previous regime are your new regimes best players and main contributors that is not a rebuild. How can you rebuild with the same pieces from 4-5 years ago? What players are currently here now that Gene drafted are future piece going forward? No one. The only reason we still arent trotting MJD out there is because Caldwell decided to "rebuild" the roster. I'm not sure why you can not see the difference?  

 

This is the first time this franchise has ever done what Caldwell is doing now. He cut guys and created holes because he was trying to start over. Gene did not do that. 

Quote:It amazes me how so many people don't understand this.

 

Basically I've thought of this team like an expansion team that started last year but didn't get extra draft picks.  That's essentially what this is.

 

Well, if they are like an expansion team all over again, do you think Gus can bring them to the level that TC did in the next couple of years?

 

From what I have seen so far from Gus, I am having my doubts right now.

 

Like a lot of people in here, I like Gus, but I have been very unimpressed with his head coaching abilities so far.

 

It's not just his 4-18 record as a HC or getting blown out in far too many games (although the last couple have been much more respectable losses, score-wise anyway), but the fact that he just doesn't seem to make any half time adjustments and too many times the Jags just look stagnant in the 2nd half.

 

It just looks like too many times he's getting out-coached in the 2nd half and that's a very bad sign.

 

After 22 games as a HC, I just think we should see better decision making from him on the sidelines, not some of the bone-headed things we continue to see.

 

These are red flags for me.

Quote:That does matter lol. If one guy had a solid qb to build around when he stepped in and the other guy had to find a qb that's a big deal. There was a O-line in place already. A solid linebacker core and players capable of starting in the future. Gene had David and had pieces to start with. David did not. That is the definition of a rebuild. When the main starters or players from a previous regime are your new regimes best players and main contributors that is not a rebuild. How can you rebuild with the same pieces from 4-5 years ago? What players are currently here now that Gene drafted are future piece going forward? No one. The only reason we still arent trotting MJD out there is because Caldwell decided to "rebuild" the roster. I'm not sure why you can not see the difference?  

 

This is the first time this franchise has ever done what Caldwell is doing now. He cut guys and created holes because he was trying to start over. Gene did not do that. 

 

So it's not a rebuild unless you cut your best players, gotcha.

Quote:So it's not a rebuild unless you cut your best players, gotcha.

Uh yeah lol. You don't rebuild with Peyton Manning. You have to start over again. How are you rebuilding if the same players from 6-8 years ago are still playing on the team and are the main contributors? This is not a hard concept to get. It really deosn't matter about all the turn over really. If the guys who are playing all the minutes are the same but you are changing the bottom half of the roster that is not a rebuild. 

Quote:So it's not a rebuild unless you cut your best players, gotcha.

 

I think it's not a rebuild unless you cut a certain amount of players, whether good or bad.

 

I don't know what the exact number of players that is, but if it is less than the number, it's considered a retool and not a rebuild.

Rationalize this suck however you want to doesn't matter to me cause all he deserves is three years of drafts and free agency periods to prove if he is good at what he does. This year for me was a barometer on how he is progressing with his work and it looks like a fail at this point but next year we should be competing for the playoffs. All this 5-6 years to build a team talk is crazy and funny to me. Nobody who is good at this in the NFL needs that much time to put together a team that should be able to make the playoffs. Idzik the gm for the Jets got hired the same time as Caldwell and everybody is already calling for his head and it's a good chance he will be fired after this season. You don't get decades trying to build a competitive team in this NFL no more. I need what ya'll delusional fans are smoking.

Quote:Rationalize this suck however you want to doesn't matter to me cause all he deserves is three years of drafts and free agency periods to prove if he is good at what he does. This year for me was a barometer on how he is progressing with his work and it looks like a fail at this point but next year we should be competing for the playoffs. All this 5-6 years to build a team talk is crazy and funny to me. Nobody who is good at this in the NFL needs that much time to put together a team that should be able to make the playoffs. Idzik the gm for the Jets got hired the same time as Caldwell and everybody is already calling for his head and it's a good chance he will be fired after this season. You don't get decades trying to build a competitive team in this NFL no more. I need what ya'll delusional fans are smoking.

Naw i'm not rationalizing nothing. This team sucks and will probably go 0-16 oh well. I'll still support the team, buy jerseys and root like it's no ones business. I love this team because they are my city but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. This is a process that needs to take place. It sucks that they are so bad but whatever. At this point I just focus on if they can improve or not. This team has been headed this way for a long time. This did not happen overnight and wont be fixed in a year either. Either enjoy the ride or stop following and get a new one to root for. I had zero expectations for this team and most likely wont for a few more years.  

I really like Gus, and his philosophy. But we should be more active in free agency. This is only his second year though and he inherited the leagues worst roster by far. I don't think he should be fired, but I do think this is without question the last year we should be this poor from top to bottom.

Being realistic, I see a lot of complaining but no one is saying what they think we should do. 

Quote:Being realistic, I see a lot of complaining but no one is saying what they think we should do. 

Plenty of people have said their opinion on what to do you're just being willingly blind to it. Our opinions on here don't matter anyway because theyre gonna do what they want to but eventually people will stop going. Then only you and your die hard fandom and a couple other nuts will be in the stadium rooting another rebuild that needs to happen.

Quote:Being realistic, I see a lot of complaining but no one is saying what they think we should do.

The team is so young that it's hard to say what to do without knowing which young players may or may not start panning out over the course of the remaining season.


Some things are obvious (LBs) and some are completely up in the air (oline).

Quote:Plenty of people have said their opinion on what to do you're just being willingly blind to it. Our opinions on here don't matter anyway because theyre gonna do what they want to but eventually people will stop going. Then only you and your die hard fandom and a couple other nuts will be in the stadium rooting another rebuild that needs to happen.

No i see complaining all over the place but I have yet to see an actual plan of action from this point forward. If you have one I gladly read it. 

Quote:This really isn't the 3rd rebuild. Those other "rebuilds" were more like retooling. We kept many carry over guys and added a couple of pieces to that. This is a true rebuild.

 

This really IS the 3rd rebuild. Stop with the excusies. 

Quote:This really IS the 3rd rebuild. Stop with the excusies. 

No it is not but whatever. This board wears you out over time lol. The same arguments every year. I'll just wait. Hopefully one day this team will stop being the worst team ever. 

Quote:Being realistic, I see a lot of complaining but no one is saying what they think we should do.

Well, we said we were going to build through draft.


And so far that has failed to produce the results we want


I think we have not done bad in our drafting

We have our qb... Most important.

Cyprian was a hit

I finally think denard is starting to fit in

Ace was good before his suspension can be again

McCray and gratz are both good late round picks

I think Allen Robinson has a lot of potential

Jury is still out on lee

Did well in the late rounds again with bowanko telvin and storm


Really the only negative I see is luke and I think the injury really hurt his development.


If we keep drafting players like this especially in later rounds we might have something here. Only problem is we are really young and we lack star power still. Lock down corner, deep threat wideout to stretch the field. And a cornerstone on the o line.


I don't know how long it will take to do this through the draft alone. But it seems to me we have to have a higher success rate with some of our free agents. That or we really need to draft a difference maker or two in the early rounds, to compliment bortles. A big tall wr,or Justin Blackmon would be huge for this team right now IMO. To bad he is such a pot head.