Quote:You remember when we drafted like we were some rushing defensive ends away from the superbowl? How did that plan work? You remember when we overpaid for free agents? How did that work? Just because some of the players we didn't resign had some gas and good play left in the tank, didn't mean they would work out for this team.
Smith is the only one I feel bad about losing. Sure it ticks me off when Mincey or Knighton make plays, but do you really think they would have put up with playing for Gus and our current coaches?
Patience sucks.
it's important to remeber who was evaluating and drafting those players... a guy who was batting .05 when it came to hitting on draft picks.
Quote:You remember when we drafted like we were some rushing defensive ends away from the superbowl? How did that plan work? You remember when we overpaid for free agents? How did that work? Just because some of the players we didn't resign had some gas and good play left in the tank, didn't mean they would work out for this team.
Smith is the only one I feel bad about losing. Sure it ticks me off when Mincey or Knighton make plays, but do you really think they would have put up with playing for Gus and our current coaches?
Patience sucks.
The problem was
who we drafted to fill needs, not being a need drafter, in the Gene Smith era. As for overpaying free agents, Smith didn't know about prove-it contracts. He would have spent less money on guys like Jerry Porter if he used the same strategy David Caldwell did to get Sen'Derrick Marks.
Quote:Many believe it's the way to build a sustainable long term winning franchise. I'm one of them. The waiting sucks - and it would be nice if a few of these FA signings would have contributed more in the mean time - but I like being loaded up with youth and not spending wildly in FA.
To each his own I suppose.
Just to add to this, it's not like they went in with the idea of playing all these guys. We had veterans in Shorts, Doss, Lewis and Brewster on offense. Brewster didn't cut it and I think it's completely fair to criticize the front office on that one but you can't forsee the 3 veterans of your passing game all getting injured within the first quarter of the season.
Quote:Just to add to this, it's not like they went in with the idea of playing all these guys. We had veterans in Shorts, Doss, Lewis and Brewster on offense. Brewster didn't cut it and I think it's completely fair to criticize the front office on that one but you can't forsee the 3 veterans of your passing game all getting injured within the first quarter of the season.
Apparently Brewster did not impress the coaches in preseason or they would have kept him. Every year players on other teams who deserve to keep their jobs are cut during preseason. It happens.
Can't wait until people cant lean on the excuse of youth and rookies starting. Building through the draft means hitting on a lot of picks. Caldwell isnt exactly doing that to this point. Only one i see about anything is Bortles and maybe the 7th rounder McCray. Not gonna kill the wr's just yet but we'll see with them, but it's nothing special.
Quote:Can't wait until people cant lean on the excuse of youth and rookies starting. Building through the draft means hitting on a lot of picks. Caldwell isnt exactly doing that to this point. Only one i see about anything is Bortles and maybe the 7th rounder McCray. Not gonna kill the wr's just yet but we'll see with them, but it's nothing special.
What about Jonathan Cyprien, Ace Sanders, and Denard Robinson last year? Although not exactly among the best players at their positions, they have been pretty good for us so far. And it looks like we hit on Allen Robinson and Storm Johnson this year, not just Blake Bortles.
Youth is only good to have if the youth is meaningful, if these players DEVELOP and get better.
Having youth like Winston Guy for example is pointless because they did not get better and had to get cut.
So the question is.... will these be the guys going forward for us?
Quote:What about Jonathan Cyprien, Ace Sanders, and Denard Robinson last year? Although not exactly among the best players at their positions, they have been pretty good for us so far. And it looks like we hit on Allen Robinson and Storm Johnson this year, not just Blake Bortles.
I forgot to include my boy Storm. Think he will shine but Gus treats him like he's a scrub talking about building trust like Gerhart has earned that. Cyprien, Robinson, and Sanders has done nothing up to this point. If I told you a quarterback threw 5 for 17 would you be impressed? That's how many draft picks Dave has had and 5 is how many might be good players.
Quote:Just because he did that does not make it right. You don't leave your team void of talent and call that a right move. A GM's job is to put a competitive team on the field
. He has not done that.
Just because an action is taken does not make it the right one.
We were competitive against the Steelers. We had two chances in the 4th quarter to score. Offense couldn't get it done. You wanted a competitive team on the field, well that's what you got yesterday.
Quote:Youth is only good to have if the youth is meaningful, if these players DEVELOP and get better.
Having youth like Winston Guy for example is pointless because they did not get better and had to get cut.
So the question is.... will these be the guys going forward for us?
All 32 general managers make mistakes in the draft. There is no way to be perfect on every pick. We do the best we can and sometimes it does not work out.
It is already clear to us Jonathan Cyprien, Blake Bortles, and the Robinsons will be guys going forward. We think Ace Sanders and Storm Johnson will too. Telvin Smith is a question mark, but I am more confident about Demetrius McCray.
Quote:We were competitive against the Steelers. We had two chances in the 4th quarter to score. Offense couldn't get it done. You wanted a competitive team on the field, well that's what you got yesterday.
Yep. That's all I wanted and expected out of this years team. Obviously it would be great to win but I can accept losses like yesterday's. If the team can play to that overall level the rest of the year, they will win a few and lose a few.
Quote:I forgot to include my boy Storm. Think he will shine but Gus treats him like he's a scrub talking about building trust like Gerhart has earned that. Cyprien, Robinson, and Sanders has done nothing up to this point. If I told you a quarterback threw 5 for 17 would you be impressed? That's how many draft picks Dave has had and 5 is how many might be good players.
Would you be impressed if I said a rookie quarterback threw for 223 yards and 2 touchdowns in just half of his first NFL game? Get real, Haze. It was just not his best day against the Steelers.
Quote:That's called building through the draft, not constantly signing 33 year old FAs.
No thats called killing your team.
You can build through the draft and supplement through FA's. Just drafting young guys and signing low tier free agents is a recipe for losing. Well here we are at 0-5 so it's workingl.
Quote:You remember when we drafted like we were some rushing defensive ends away from the superbowl? How did that plan work? You remember when we overpaid for free agents? How did that work? Just because some of the players we didn't resign had some gas and good play left in the tank, didn't mean they would work out for this team.
Smith is the only one I feel bad about losing. Sure it ticks me off when Mincey or Knighton make plays, but do you really think they would have put up with playing for Gus and our current coaches?
Patience sucks.
I remember when we overpaid for free agents and it got us 2 afc championship games in 3 years. It's not how much you pay free agency it's who you get.
Quote:No thats called killing your team.
You can build through the draft and supplement through FAs. Just drafting young guys and signing low tier free agents is a recipe for losing. Well here we are at 0-5 so it's workingl.
There is no reason to think it is killing the team. Killing the team means doing what Gene Smith did.
Quote:I will never understand why people cannot grasp this concept. It should be obvious to everyone talent and experience don't mean the same thing.
David Caldwell explained when he got the job he wants to build a team from scratch to create lasting success, admitting there will be growing pains along the way. So why does anybody think just because we are seeing growing pains, his plan does not work?
4-17 and getting blown out most games i not "growing pains." It's a disaster.
Quote:There is no reason to think it is killing the team. Killing the team means doing what Gene Smith did.
How is what caldwell has done any better than Gene Smith?
You can have hope these young guys will turn into something but it's just hope.
They both put losing teams on the field so Gene=Caldwell
Quote:4-17 and getting blown out most games i not "growing pains." It's a disaster.
Just go ahead and find another team to root for. You'll be better off in the long run, and so will this board.
Quote: ...5 for 17 would you be impressed? That's how many draft picks Dave has had and 5 is how many might be good players.
Joeckel, Cyprien, Gratz, Sanders, D Robinson, Evans, J Harris, McCray, Bortles, Lee, A Robinson, Linder, Colvin, C Smith, T Smith, Bowanko, Storm
So which of these guys ^ exactly are you prematurely writing off?
I think the jury is still out on the majority of them and I could see 9 or 10 of them being long term starters.
My 9 or 10 : Joeckel - Cyprien - Linder - Sanders (WR4/PR) - D Rob (COP back) - McCray - (corner) - Bortles - Lee - A Robinson -
?Gratz (nickel)
Quote:In a few categories it is. Of course, stats…. you know.
The raiders have scored a whopping total of 51 points. (Jags - 67)
And I am not sure the Jags win in a head to head match up. Sure didn't last season.
Like someone else said... the Jags have played one more game. I would hope we have scored more pts.