I just listened to
Jaguars Monday , and Prisco mentioned something interesting. A lot of us assumed the Jaguars are being built in the mold of the Seahawks. But are they? And should they?
Prisco sees Bortles' upside as being higher than Russel Wilson and that the Jaguars should be building around him and not around a defense/running game. What I think he means is basically draft offense based around the passing game, and draft defense based on having a lead and defending the pass, and retain players with those same principals.
Which leads me to Caldwell. His history is generally of offensive teams built around franchise quarterbacks. He has no ties to Seattle and the way their team was built, so why would that be his model in the first place? I don't think Caldwell is trying to build another Seattle Seahawks. I think he's building the team based on Colts/Hawks model.
So why hire a defensive-minded coach? My theory is that he expects to have more talent on the offensive side, and expects his quarterback to almost be the coach of the offense, and expects to retain players based moreso on the passing game. Having a defensive minded coach (if that's even a thing) makes sense when your team is built so that that side of the ball will need the most coaching. In other words someone who can keep developing cheap talent (which is what he's done in Seattle).
Oh thank goodness for this type of thread. To be honest, I was expecting another slam thread.
Quote:I just listened to Jaguars Monday , and Prisco mentioned something interesting. A lot of us assumed the Jaguars are being built in the mold of the Seahawks. But are they? And should they?
Prisco sees Bortles' upside as being higher than Russel Wilson and that the Jaguars should be building around him and not around a defense/running game. What I think he means is basically draft offense based around the passing game, and draft defense based on having a lead and defending the pass, and retain players with those same principals.
Which leads me to Caldwell. His history is generally of offensive teams built around franchise quarterbacks. He has no ties to Seattle and the way their team was built, so why would that be his model in the first place? I don't think Caldwell is trying to build another Seattle Seahawks. I think he's building the team based on Colts/Hawks model.
So why hire a defensive-minded coach? My theory is that he expects to have more talent on the offensive side, and expects his quarterback to almost be the coach of the offense, and expects to retain players based moreso on the passing game. Having a defensive minded coach (if that's even a thing) makes sense when your team is built so that that side of the ball will need the most coaching. In other words someone who can keep developing cheap talent (which is what he's done in Seattle).
<span style="font-family:Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;">I think the Jaguars offense is being built in Atlanta's likeness, Blake Bortles is Matt Ryan (albeit with a much higher upside), Marqise Lee is Roddy White and Allen Robinson is Julio Jones. You can also reference Indianapolis (when David Caldwell was there), they had a franchise QB with two dynamic receivers as well (Marvin Harrison & Reggie Wayne), once the offense is fully built I expect it to look nothing like Seattle's.</span>
I think you just draft good football players. Don't get into this crap about "building a team that plays with the lead". How did that work out for the Colts? They got ONE... just ONE championship with that philosophy mostly because their defense was garbage. Plus in the year they won, the NFC didn't field a capable team.
The Patriots' championships were built on greatness on both sides of the ball. Guys like Bruschi, Vince Wilfork, Willie Mcginnest, and Rodney Harrison were hardly "play with the lead" guys.
If you try to build a defense that "plays with the lead" we will get gashed in the running game. Not a good plan. Just draft the best players available and let the chips fall where they may.
Quote:
<span style="font-family:Arial;"><span style="font-size:10px;">I think the Jaguars offense is being built in Atlanta's likeness, Blake Bortles is Matt Ryan (albeit with a much higher upside), Marqise Lee is Roddy White and Allen Robinson is Julio Jones. You can also reference Indianapolis (when David Caldwell was there), they had a franchise QB with two dynamic receivers as well (Marvin Harrison & Reggie Wayne), once the offense is fully built I expect it to look nothing like Seattle's.
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I think if ANY receiver on this team has the chance of walkin in Julio's shoes (or even coming close), so far its been Hurns..
Quote:I think if ANY receiver on this team has the chance of walkin in Julio's shoes (or even coming close), so far its been Hurns..
Hurns catches the ball with his body. Julio has giant man hands that he snatches the ball with. Robinson is closer to Julio than Hurns.
I dont hes following a model. I honestly think Caldwell learned good and bad from his predecessors. He understands to get a qb and his weapons first and build a defense next. The whole Seattle thing is from the defense Gus ran prior to us.
I meantioned in another thread I truly think Gus installed this defense because there were no feature players here when he came to build a defense around. He didn't have a clay Matthews to build a scheme around or a revis to install a blitzing scheme.
Since those players didnt exist and he didn't have a foundation to mold, he installed a system and focused on finding guys who can run that system.
Quote:Hurns catches the ball with his body. Julio has giant man hands that he snatches the ball with. Robinson is closer to Julio than Hurns.
Don't give a damn. Hurns has been catching the deep ball with the exception of that easy crucial one.
Quote:Don't give a damn. Hurns has been catching the deep ball with the exception of that easy crucial one.
Don't care how you do it just get it done.
Quote:Don't care how you do it just get it done.
Amen..
Build around the QB it's what the good teams do
Quote:Don't give a damn. Hurns has been catching the deep ball with the exception of that easy crucial one.
ok, calm down.... his style is nothing like Julio
plus you missed the point of the poster who was saying he thinks we are being molded like Atlanta. Hurns was undrafted, so it's obvious he isn't meant to be our Julio. ARob fits that mold, not Hurns.
Quote:ok, calm down.... his style is nothing like Julio
Style is for sissys.. Production is what counts.
I always thought it was plain to see that the offensive side of the ball in Jacksonville under Caldwell/Bradley/Fisch had nothing to do with Seattle. In the first preseason Fisch's interviews made that apparent IMO. So I guess this seems like old news to me.
Caldwell obviously believes in his ability to find the offensive talent to complement Bradley's defense. He's off to a good start with the QB and WRs. If that young line starts clicking it will be an effective offense by season's end IMO.
Quote:Don't give a damn. Hurns has been catching the deep ball with the exception of that easy crucial one.
He did catch "that crucial one." It just wasn't pretty.
Quote:I think you just draft good football players. Don't get into this crap about "building a team that plays with the lead". How did that work out for the Colts? They got ONE... just ONE championship with that philosophy mostly because their defense was garbage. Plus in the year they won, the NFC didn't field a capable team.
The Patriots' championships were built on greatness on both sides of the ball. Guys like Bruschi, Vince Wilfork, Willie Mcginnest, and Rodney Harrison were hardly "play with the lead" guys.
If you try to build a defense that "plays with the lead" we will get gashed in the running game. Not a good plan. Just draft the best players available and let the chips fall where they may.
At some point you have to make decisions, who you keep, who you sign, what type of skill sets you go after. There has to be some philosophy because you don't have an unlimited amount of cap space and 1st round picks.
As far as getting "gashed', not quite. Just be average, maybe even slightly below average. If the opposing team is one-dimensional just load the box. When they pass you harass the quarterback. As far as the Colts and Hawks, they are in the playoffs consistently so I'm not calling either of these models as being unsuccessful.
Having a defense as good as Seattle and maintaining it for an extended period of time is unrealistic. I don't think our defense will ever be anywhere near that good. And I don't care.
Just give me touchdowns.
Quote:He did catch "that crucial one." It just wasn't pretty.
I'm talking the wide open drop
Quote:At some point you have to make decisions, who you keep, who you sign, what type of skill sets you go after. There has to be some philosophy because you don't have an unlimited amount of cap space and 1st round picks.
As far as getting "gashed', not quite. Just be average, maybe even slightly below average. If the opposing team is one-dimensional just load the box. When they pass you harass the quarterback. As far as the Colts and Hawks, they are in the playoffs consistently so I'm not calling either of these models as being unsuccessful.
Having a defense as good as Seattle and maintaining it for an extended period of time is unrealistic. I don't think our defense will ever be anywhere near that good. And I don't care.
Just give me touchdowns.
Our defense could get to that level if we suck for long enough. That is basically what SF and SEA did. They were horrible for so long and stockpiled a ton of top 15 talent in every draft.
Building a team to be smaller and quicker (which is basically what Prisco is saying) is a dumb move. You draft studs like Pat Willis and Earl Thomas. End of story.
Quote:Our defense could get to that level if we suck for long enough. That is basically what SF and SEA did. They were horrible for so long and stockpiled a ton of top 15 talent in every draft.
Building a team to be smaller and quicker (which is basically what Prisco is saying) is a dumb move. You draft studs like Pat Willis and Earl Thomas. End of story.
So you're suggesting sucking for a long time to stockpile draft picks as the alternative strategy?
If Bortles is good and the offense is able to consistently generate a lot of points, what is the point of focusing on a big run-stopping defense if the opposing team is forced to pass anyway? The mentality of building a team around not being able to score has to go.
Quote:So you're suggesting sucking for a long time to stockpile draft picks as the alternative strategy?
If Bortles is good and the offense is able to consistently generate a lot of points, what is the point of focusing on a big run-stopping defense if the opposing team is forced to pass anyway? The mentality of building a team around not being able to score has to go.
I didn't suggest anything. I'm just explaining to you how and why SF and SEA got so good. You don't suck as a strategy, but if you "build through the draft" that is basically how your team gets really good. If your are bad for long enough, eventually you get more talented.
You build your offense to score points. You build your defense to be good at more than one thing. You don't want to get in a situation where you have a glaring weakness. The goal should be to be balanced on both sides of the ball.
This is the NFL. You will rarely have a situation where Bortles is blowing teams out. Especially in the playoffs where everybody is good. What good will a defense "built to play with the lead" do when its a 3 point ball game or its tied in the 4th qtr?