So, my son plays Pop Warner ball in Jacksonville.
We live on the Southside and many times find ourselves travelling to some of the less desirable parts of town...Most of the time, the people are good-hearted, salt of the earth folks that just want to see a good game and have a good time.
We were waiting to weigh in today (Pop Warner has age/weight limits) and the guy running the PA system asked that all the people there get out and vote. That, "If we want to make a difference, we need to educate ourselves, and go vote." And I'm kinda agreeing with the guy...then he throws in "If we want to do something about Trayvon, Brown, Davis then we need to educate ourselves and get out and vote"
What the hell would they vote for that would change any of those situations?
I just don't understand the race hustling. How was this guy, who should just be telling folks to go get some fried goodness from the concession stand, able to say that with a straight face. He asked for an "Amen" after he said this...
As far as those situations are concerned, I'm not really sure there's a "magic legislation" that would work. Electing better people, voting for or against limits on police militarization could help (at least with the aftermath. I, for the record, am opposed to police militarization). There isn't a single action that's going to fix this, but the sum of all our actions definitely could. Maybe it wouldn't have helped those specific situations, but it could help other similar situations from occurring.
That said, I'd like to take this opportunity to say this: I think those of us participating in actual discussion (so not "LOL stupid liberals have nothing positive to add" or "LOL stupid conservatives have nothing positive to add") are doing some of the best things we could to be educated voters. For that, I have a great deal of respect for those of you who do participate in actual discussion regardless of whether or not I agree with you on a topic - far more so than people who shy away from any and all political discussion even if they share the same stance I have. Exposing yourself to opposing views does, in my opinion, far more than reading or watching topics from entirely [insert-wing-here] outlets ever could. So, well done to all of you who aren't afraid to be challenged and handle it in a reasonable way.
It's funny, I know way too many over-educated voters who know way too much about how they mistakenly think the world works and vote accordingly. Sounds like your PA guy could be in that group as well.
Unravel- I agree, that as long as it remains civil, you can possibly learn something. YOu just have to be open-minded, which admittedly is really hard for me
I just couldn't figure out what they could have voted for that would have changed any of those kids lives. Other than some better home training would have possibly kept them out of the situations they were in, especially Brown.
Oh, I forgot to add..he then said "do it for the children, the children". So he hit the race card, the religious card, and the kid card. Unbelievable.
Quote:It's funny, I know way too many over-educated voters who know way too much about how they mistakenly think the world works and vote accordingly. Sounds like your PA guy could be in that group as well.
It's funny, I saw a guy wearing a "Warning: Educated Black Man". Why would you wear that?! I just don't get it.
I know that there are some people out there who have called for people to actually take a "Test" before they can legally be allowed to vote on political issues; such as understanding the Constitution, Federal, State, and Local laws, as well as understanding the positions of each candidate before the election, and the political positions of each party, and every other party out there. In a way, I can understand this position with the amount of uneducated people in this Country right now, but on the other hand, it would also be discriminating against specific segments of the population; such as handicapped voters, and immigrants.
And now this just opens up another huge can of worms of exactly: Who SHOULD be allowed to vote? Back during the days of the House of Burgesses, and the early American Republic, only people who possessed land could vote. As it was understood that people who owned land would be more attentive to the issues of the time, and therefore would have a greater say in the election. During and after the Civil War, many people in both the North and South believed that Slaves and Ex-Slaves shouldn't have the right vote simply because many of them were uneducated about the political and legal system of the Country, and this could lead to fraudulent elections, and corruption in both systems.
We cannot afford to continue to look at history in the eyes of the 21st Century. Many of these suffrage reforms made in good-will in the 19th and 20th Centuries, sure have come back to haunt us as a Country, in the 21st Century...
Voting is not a right no where in the constitution or any of the amendments has it ever been qualified as a right.
Quote:Voting is not a right no where in the constitution or any of the amendments has it ever been qualified as a right.
Now try saying that to everyone else on this forum, in your community, and to your elected officials.
Quote:So, my son plays Pop Warner ball in Jacksonville.
We live on the Southside and many times find ourselves travelling to some of the less desirable parts of town...Most of the time, the people are good-hearted, salt of the earth folks that just want to see a good game and have a good time.
We were waiting to weigh in today (Pop Warner has age/weight limits) and the guy running the PA system asked that all the people there get out and vote. That, "If we want to make a difference, we need to educate ourselves, and go vote." And I'm kinda agreeing with the guy...then he throws in "If we want to do something about Trayvon, Brown, Davis then we need to educate ourselves and get out and vote"
What the hell would they vote for that would change any of those situations?
I just don't understand the race hustling. How was this guy, who should just be telling folks to go get some fried goodness from the concession stand, able to say that with a straight face. He asked for an "Amen" after he said this...
Im confused.
How is it race hustling?
Quote:Now try saying that to everyone else on this forum, in your community, and to your elected officials.
It's a tough message but one people need to understand. I know the whole MTV get out the vote campaigns has them all convinced voting is a constitutional right but it's simply never qualified as a right in the constitution. There's plenty of stipulations placed to prevent discrimination or restricting access based upon specific qualifiers but that's different from a constitutional right.
Quote:It's a tough message but one people need to understand. I know the whole MTV get out the vote campaigns has them all convinced voting is a constitutional right but it's simply never qualified as a right in the constitution. There's plenty of stipulations placed to prevent discrimination or restricting access based upon specific qualifiers but that's different from a constitutional right.
On the other hand though, the lack of full voter participation can lead to corruption in the sense that a vote of the minority, doesn't necessarily represent the interests of everyone else in the community. In my town alone, only 2,000 people voted out of a total population of roughly 63,000 people. Of whom only about less than 20,000 were registered voters in the last Mayoral/Council election. And there's an equally insignificant voter turnout for the County Elections.
Now I know that most people don't really care so much about Town/City/County elections as much as Gubernatorial, Senatorial, and Presidential elections, but you've got to admit that, that is just sad and disappointing man. Especially since these elections affect you much more directly than the other ones.
Quote:Im confused.
How is it race hustling?
Due to the audience, and the issues being represented. They were inflammatory and ignorant. The 100 people in the stands at the game , couldn't have possibly voted on anything that would have changed any outcome of a kid in St Louis, beating the crap out of a cop and getting shot. Nor would it have changed a guy getting the crap kicked outta him in Orlando from shooting his attacker, or a guy shooting blindly into a vehicle after an argument. Just banging the race card...doesn't do anyone any good.
Quote:Due to the audience, and the issues being represented. They were inflammatory and ignorant. The 100 people in the stands at the game , couldn't have possibly voted on anything that would have changed any outcome of a kid in St Louis, beating the crap out of a cop and getting shot. Nor would it have changed a guy getting the crap kicked outta him in Orlando from shooting his attacker, or a guy shooting blindly into a vehicle after an argument. Just banging the race card...doesn't do anyone any good.
Ive seen some people of ALL races in demonstrations in regards to justice for all the incidents you referenced above.
Quote:Ive seen some people of ALL races in demonstrations in regards to justice for all the incidents you referenced above.
Well, lack of wisdom isn't restricted by race.
Some vote for representation. Taxes. Military. Other spending. Things near and dear to their hearts. Abortion. Gay marriage. Gun control. Theres a plethora of issues to vote on.
Then theres those who have a single issue, and it involves only them, never mind whats best for all and the country.
There are those who vote on a candidate purely on their one issue. Oh..he supports abortion. Oh..he's for immigration reform. Oh..he says hes more conservative than the other conservative.
Its , in many cases what I want, not what we need.
'Murica baby
Quote:Unravel- I agree, that as long as it remains civil, you can possibly learn something. YOu just have to be open-minded, which admittedly is really hard for me
I just couldn't figure out what they could have voted for that would have changed any of those kids lives. Other than some better home training would have possibly kept them out of the situations they were in, especially Brown.
Oh, I forgot to add..he then said "do it for the children, the children". So he hit the race card, the religious card, and the kid card. Unbelievable.
It's funny, I saw a guy wearing a "Warning: Educated Black Man". Why would you wear that?! I just don't get it.
The rhetoric hat trick? Guy deserves a standing ovation.
Quote:It's a tough message but one people need to understand. I know the whole MTV get out the vote campaigns has them all convinced voting is a constitutional right but it's simply never qualified as a right in the constitution. There's plenty of stipulations placed to prevent discrimination or restricting access based upon specific qualifiers but that's different from a constitutional right.
You don't think there is something fundamentally flawed with putting the constitution on a pedestal when guns are a "right" but voting is not?
Quote:You don't think there is something fundamentally flawed with putting the constitution on a pedestal when guns are a "right" but voting is not?
Not really, the founders understood the need for those who make the decisions to have skin the game other than what freebies the guy they are voting for will hand out of the people's treasury. That's why the land owner clause was a very good idea; because land owners were the tax payers, everyone else had no compelling interest in the government (no taxation without representation became only taxation guarantees representation). Self defense, OTOH, is an inherent right granted to all people based on the existential laws of nature and nature's god, not their level of participation in local or national government.
Quote:Not really, the founders understood the need for those who make the decisions to have skin the game other than what freebies the guy they are voting for will hand out of the people's treasury. That's why the land owner clause was a very good idea; because land owners were the tax payers, everyone else had no compelling interest in the government (no taxation without representation became only taxation guarantees representation). Self defense, OTOH, is an inherent right granted to all people based on the existential laws of nature and nature's god, not their level of participation in local or national government.
Exclusionary society is not society. What you are promoting is setting up a an oligarchy which is in stark contrast to what people believe this country was founded on.
Aside from that, perhaps at the time land owners were the only tax payers but that is not the case anymore and though I do not know for sure, I doubt it remained only land owners paying taxes in some form for very long.
Quote:Exclusionary society is not society. What you are promoting is setting up a an oligarchy which is in stark contrast to what people believe this country was founded on.
Aside from that, perhaps at the time land owners were the only tax payers but that is not the case anymore and though I do not know for sure, I doubt it remained only land owners paying taxes in some form for very long.
About the 80 years until the War then the Congress had to raise funds the traditional ways. Then we got the income tax scheme at the turn of the century with Wilson.
And what people believe is what this thread is all about! :thumbsup:
Quote:About the 80 years until the War then the Congress had to raise funds the traditional ways. Then we got the income tax scheme at the turn of the century with Wilson.
And what people believe is what this thread is all about! :thumbsup:
Agreed that is the point of this thread.
My point was restricting the right vote is a one way ticket to an oligarchy. Do I wish all voters for informed and educated? Of course I do. I just don't think you can force people to either be informed or not vote just like you can't force people to raise their kids in a way you deem proper. It sucks but that's the nature of society.