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I thought that if somebody had to bring up such a hot-topic and highly controversial political/educational issue such as Common Core, it might as well be me.

We've personally committed to keeping all four of ours out of it. Right now the older two are in a Church school but if they start common core like the one in st Augustine we plan on home schooling.


My four will never see the inside of a government brain washing institution.

I admit to being totally ignorant as to this, other than the name. I need to get Ed u ma cated

Quote:We've personally committed to keeping all four of ours out of it. Right now the older two are in a Church school but if they start common core like the one in st Augustine we plan on home schooling.


My four will never see the inside of a government brain washing institution.

Don't know a ton about common core but I did see how they teach some "Basic math" skills and holy crap... Math is second nature to me and I could barely understand how it works. 

 

I'll PM you about the other comment so we don't derail this thread like all the others lol.

CC is a good idea in that we want kids in New York to have the same education as kids in Arizona. But, as usual with liberals, they are only good at the theory; practical reality always bites them in the [BLEEP] at implementation. In this case the reality appears to be that they are making learning harder than it needs to be by overcomplexity.

It's not just liberals mike huckabee and Jeb bush are huge common core supporters.


The problem With common core is it's standardized education. They're removing the teachers ability to create lesson plans and dictating from Washington what and how everything is taught nation wide. They tell kids silly things like 2+2=5 is an acceptable answer if the child can explain how they got that answer. Why confuse kids tell them no it's not 5 the answer is 4 and here's why.


Federalization of education has been a colossal failure in all fronts common core is federalized education on steroids.

I'm glad Virginia opted out of Common Core.  I know my wife as a teacher (and a mother) is glad we did too.  

 

Honestly what's good for one student, might not be good for another.  Our eldest three daughters have all had trouble with math, and they all use different methods that work for them.  (It's no surprise they have trouble with math, both me and their mother were terrible at math).  


Teachers work with students on an individual basis.  They can see for themselves what works and what doesn't.  And no two students are the same.  Everybody's mind works differently.  Teachers need more control over how they teach.  What we really needs is more good teachers.  The position doesn't get the respect it deserves. 

Quote:I'm glad Virginia opted out of Common Core.  I know my wife as a teacher (and a mother) is glad we did too.  

 

Honestly what's good for one student, might not be good for another.  Our eldest three daughters have all had trouble with math, and they all use different methods that work for them.  (It's no surprise they have trouble with math, both me and their mother were terrible at math).  


Teachers work with students on an individual basis.  They can see for themselves what works and what doesn't.  And no two students are the same.  Everybody's mind works differently.  Teachers need more control over how they teach.  What we really needs is more good teachers.  The position doesn't get the respect it deserves. 

Common Core is not just impractical in its model of teaching, but unconstitutional in the way that it can essentially dictate a State's educational standards, and then force those same standards to be taught by the teachers themselves. I remember reading a story about a 5th grade boy who had Math homework which was being taught under the CC curriculum, and even the Dad who was an electrical engineer couldn't figure it out. Eventually, he just left a note at the bottom of the page telling the teacher off about how dumb and impractical the problem was, and that it was a waste of effort overall.

 

 

I'm glad that I've never had to deal with any of this garbage.

I don't know much about it, but I remember seeing a video that looked creepy as hell, the teacher and her class of 1st graders I think it was showing how awesome CC was.  The way she's talking to them, I think she literally said at one point keep your dear leader happy or some nonsense like that, either way it was the weirdest [BLEEP] I've seen in terms of educating.

I honestly didn't notice that much of a difference during the early parts of the transition to common core. Classes didn't seem to change much at all, just the end of course assessments. I didn't spend much time on my high school campus as a student though, so my exposure was limited. The teachers I spoke to as a TA weren't terribly happy with common core though, and I'll side with happy teachers that work differently from one another over angry teachers that are forced to be on the same page.

Teachers seem to be mostly against common core (and race to the top for that matter).  It seems that when it comes to health decisions, we ask doctors.  But when it comes to education, we don't ask teachers.  Race to the Top is just No Child Left Behind designed by Obama.


A lot of people favor ideas like merit-based pay, when there's no good way to determine merit.  I mean there's so many things out of the control of teachers, it'd be like judging the quality of a doctor on the BMI of his patients (and he can't turn any patients down).  


We've become obsessed with standardized testing so much, that we forgot that education is supposed to be more than a test.   It's important to have standards.  But students are being over-tested (and often the tests are confusing to the point where people with masters can't do well on them).  


It wouldn't surprise me if many parents weren't against Common Core either.  I'd love to see one of these politicians try to teach in a public school for a year.  Not sure what they could teach though.  Seems like they have trouble with a lot of basic concepts.

Big factor into choosing my kids school was the absence of common core. A couple of the church schools have even started teaching common core which is we did not go with them.

One of my favorite all-time "heroes", Steve Wozniak discussed education in an interview.  What he says is true.  Children are not allowed to use their minds/imagination when exploring new concepts and ideas.  In the current government indoctrination facilities schools, children are "taught" to always come up with the same answer.  They don't teach "concepts" to children, they teach them how to pass a test and how to memorize things.  If the student can pass the test, then it's considered a "success".

 

Some of the absolute "dumbest" people that I have worked with are EE grads that can't hook up a simple battery system.  For those of you that aren't familiar with "EE" it's an Electronics Engineer.  I worked with a couple of them in my last job, one with a bachelors degree and the other holds a masters degree.  Neither one was familiar with or knew how to use simple test equipment (an oscilloscope).

 

Think of past history and what was accomplished prior to the establishment of the Department of Education.  Nuclear technology, stealth technology, computers and even the internet was developed by people using pencil and paper as well as slide rules.  Heck, even Steve Wozniak's design of the first Apple Computer were hand drawn with pencil and paper.  The UNIX Operating System which runs much of what we use today (albeit variants of UNIX such as Linux, Mac OS and Android) was developed way back by Dennis Ritchie and Michael Kerrigan, both using pencil, paper and their minds.  The also developed the C programming language which runs most of what we see every day.

 

People were encouraged to use their minds to reach certain goals.  Look at the technology that put a man on the moon.

 

Nowadays look at how children are being "indoctrinated" by our current government indoctrination facilities schools.  They are being taught to sing about the dear leader President as if he is "the savior".  Colleges tend to "preach" the liberal agenda and continue the "indoctrination".

 

I could go on and on and even cite examples of how the current indoctrination school system is such a failure in this country.

The funny thing is a lot of common core supporters?  Send their kids to private schools.  This includes Bill Gates, who was the champion for Common Core.  And Obama who send Sasha and Malia to a private school as well.  


A lot of common core opponents?  Are educators and parents who send their kids to schools that do have common core, and have to actually deal with it.


It's just another thing that diverts attention from the real issues.  A way for the higher ups to say "Well if the problem isn't solved, then it's the teachers fault, not ours.  Even though we came up with the standards without their input, even though they oppose the standards.  Obviously they're the ones doing something wrong."

Quote:One of my favorite all-time "heroes", Steve Wozniak discussed education in an interview.  What he says is true.  Children are not allowed to use their minds/imagination when exploring new concepts and ideas.  In the current government indoctrination facilities schools, children are "taught" to always come up with the same answer.  They don't teach "concepts" to children, they teach them how to pass a test and how to memorize things.  If the student can pass the test, then it's considered a "success".

 

Some of the absolute "dumbest" people that I have worked with are EE grads that can't hook up a simple battery system.  For those of you that aren't familiar with "EE" it's an Electronics Engineer.  I worked with a couple of them in my last job, one with a bachelors degree and the other holds a masters degree.  Neither one was familiar with or knew how to use simple test equipment (an oscilloscope).

 

Think of past history and what was accomplished prior to the establishment of the Department of Education.  Nuclear technology, stealth technology, computers and even the internet was developed by people using pencil and paper as well as slide rules.  Heck, even Steve Wozniak's design of the first Apple Computer were hand drawn with pencil and paper.  The UNIX Operating System which runs much of what we use today (albeit variants of UNIX such as Linux, Mac OS and Android) was developed way back by Dennis Ritchie and Michael Kerrigan, both using pencil, paper and their minds.  The also developed the C programming language which runs most of what we see every day.

 

People were encouraged to use their minds to reach certain goals.  Look at the technology that put a man on the moon.

 

Nowadays look at how children are being "indoctrinated" by our current government indoctrination facilities schools.  They are being taught to sing about the dear leader President as if he is "the savior".  Colleges tend to "preach" the liberal agenda and continue the "indoctrination".

 

I could go on and on and even cite examples of how the current indoctrination school system is such a failure in this country.

People would take this stuff more seriously if it was presented without the crazy tin foil hat. Salient points mixed with conspiracy theory just fails to most people. Just sayin' 

Quote:The funny thing is a lot of common core supporters?  Send their kids to private schools.  This includes Bill Gates, who was the champion for Common Core.  And Obama who send Sasha and Malia to a private school as well.  


A lot of common core opponents?  Are educators and parents who send their kids to schools that do have common core, and have to actually deal with it.


It's just another thing that diverts attention from the real issues.  A way for the higher ups to say "Well if the problem isn't solved, then it's the teachers fault, not ours.  Even though we came up with the standards without their input, even though they oppose the standards.  Obviously they're the ones doing something wrong."

 

So I guess the question is, should these government programs, bureaucracy (Department of Education) and institutions be changed or go away?  I'm all for getting rid of the Department of Education since it serves no purpose whatsoever.  Imagine how much money would be saved when dealing with the Federal Budget.

 

Next I would use a portion of the funds saved by getting rid of the Department of Education to subsidize private schools that don't teach "common core" and actually teach students to think.  Imagine that, private schools actually doing better and providing an actual education rather than the indoctrination education that public schools provide.

 

The whole point is to challenge these students to put man on the moon again.  Challenge them to come up with a better way to do things.  Get government out of the way and let the younger generation open up their minds.

 

Quote:<div>
People would take this stuff more seriously if it was presented without the crazy tin foil hat. Salient points mixed with conspiracy theory just fails to most people. Just sayin' 

 

It's why people don't like TMD very much.

</div>
 

 

Quote:So I guess the question is, should these government programs, bureaucracy (Department of Education) and institutions be changed or go away?  I'm all for getting rid of the Department of Education since it serves no purpose whatsoever.  Imagine how much money would be saved when dealing with the Federal Budget.

 

Next I would use a portion of the funds saved by getting rid of the Department of Education to subsidize private schools that don't teach "common core" and actually teach students to think.  Imagine that, private schools actually doing better and providing an actual education rather than the indoctrination education that public schools provide.

 

The whole point is to challenge these students to put man on the moon again.  Challenge them to come up with a better way to do things.  Get government out of the way and let the younger generation open up their minds.

 

Imagine how much money would be saved if we cut back on our military spending, which outspends the next 7 nations combined.  Our department of defense wastes money like it grows on trees.  


I have to laugh every time the public schools are called 'indoctrination'.  I attended public school, and was certainly not brainwashed.    In fact nobody I know was.  All those that say that can bring up are the president song (at one elementary school mind you) and how they're taking prayer out of school (even though prayer in school is not forbidden, it just can't be lead by a teacher, which makes sense because that would be indoctrination)


Subsidizing private schools would accomplish nothing.  Many private schools only accept certain students, and certainly have no reason to accept students with disabilities.  Then you would have the rise of schools opening up just to make a profit.  And you certainly have parents who still wouldn't be able to afford the other costs of going to private school.  


Challenge students to put man on the moon again?   Surely if the private schools are so wonderful, those students should have put a man on mars by now, right?  I mean that's what you're asking of public schools, so why can't I ask it of private schools?  Neil Armstrong attended public school btw.

Quote:People would take this stuff more seriously if it was presented without the crazy tin foil hat. Salient points mixed with conspiracy theory just fails to most people. Just sayin' 

 

How is it presented with a "crazy tin foil hat"?  It's pretty much the truth.  I challenge you to refute any of my claims.  Show me actual data that supports the fact that children are educated rather than taught to pass a test.  Show me an example of where children, or even college students are allowed to use their minds and creativity to come up with something useful.  Show me something that would give confidence to the concept of putting man on the moon again.  It's not going to happen.

 

However you want to spin it, it's just not happening in our current government indoctrination centers schools.  Plain and simple, students are "taught" how to get the "correct" answer on a test.  Supposedly getting the "correct" answer on a test = "knowledge".  This spills over to a advanced indoctrination college education where these kids don't learn anything meaningful or useful.

 

I personally see it every day in my job.  I am tasked with training military personnel to perform certain things.  The "dumbest" ones are usually the officers who are college grads.  These idiots couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag.  The enlisted crew that works with them isn't much better.  If they can't "click on it" to do something, then they are totally lost.

 

Yup, I wonder who is really wearing the "tin foil hat" and who is looking at reality?

Quote:How is it presented with a "crazy tin foil hat"?  It's pretty much the truth.  I challenge you to refute any of my claims.  Show me actual data that supports the fact that children are educated rather than taught to pass a test.  Show me an example of where children, or even college students are allowed to use their minds and creativity to come up with something useful.  Show me something that would give confidence to the concept of putting man on the moon again.  It's not going to happen.

 

However you want to spin it, it's just not happening in our current government indoctrination centers schools.  Plain and simple, students are "taught" how to get the "correct" answer on a test.  Supposedly getting the "correct" answer on a test = "knowledge".  This spills over to a advanced indoctrination college education where these kids don't learn anything meaningful or useful.

 

I personally see it every day in my job.  I am tasked with training military personnel to perform certain things.  The "dumbest" ones are usually the officers who are college grads.  These idiots couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag.  The enlisted crew that works with them isn't much better.  If they can't "click on it" to do something, then they are totally lost.

 

Yup, I wonder who is really wearing the "tin foil hat" and who is looking at reality?

Wow you are willfully ignoring what I am calling crazy tin foil hat stuff? I was very clear that your salient points are ignored and fall on deaf ears because you just can't help but through out conspiracy theories. 

 

You actually believe the school system is indoctrination and brain washing.

 

You believe the school system is indoctrination and brain washing.

 

I typed it twice so you could see what that sounds like. 

 

That is crazy tin foil hat talk. 

Quote:Wow you are willfully ignoring what I am calling crazy tin foil hat stuff? I was very clear that your salient points are ignored and fall on deaf ears because you just can't help but through out conspiracy theories. 

 

You actually believe the school system is indoctrination and brain washing.

 

You believe the school system is indoctrination and brain washing.

 

I typed it twice so you could see what that sounds like. 

 

That is crazy tin foil hat talk. 

 

<span style="background-color:transparent;">The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next.
 - 

</span><span>Abraham Lin
coln (unconfirmed)</span>

 

What a maroon... - Bugs Bunny