Quote:Ahh, the denial now.
You were quick to dismiss Hurns early, propping Mike Brown over him. You're not slip sliding out of this one now.
I called you out on it right then. Maybe you forgot since it was Ace you were once again trying to put on the bubble during the discussion.
I'll admit that early as in MAY, that I wasn't expecting much from Hurns, thats true.
But since the preseason games have started, (which is essentially what I said) Hurns quickly made a believer outta me and I have been giving him props ever since.
Quote:What does any of this have to do with Chad Henne not being able to put games away?
Are you saying Chad does put games away? If so, I would love to see a few of those games that he's done that in.
As for your 2nd paragraph, par for the course for you.
He didn't cost us the game, bottom line. It wasn't his to "put away" when it was taken away. To say he didn't "put it away" is to literally ignore just about everything that happened during the game. This is not Madden.
Quote:There was at least one screen Todman(?) had it gift wrapped, and several others as well. Their defense deserves credit for the batted balls (weren't happening the first half) but there were a lot of plays left on the field that should have been made by the receivers. One ball just about hit Marcedes in the head. He wasn't looking soon enough and didn't even get his hands up until after the ball passed.
Some plays were not made by receivers (Lee, Todman, Lewis)...some not made by Henne, but seemingly not enough effective blocks in the running game.
On the offensive side of the ball, there is plenty of blame to go around.
I apportion most of it to the OL.
The good news is that this team is so young, it can learn from this loss and play better in the future from it.
Quote:I get this, and you could certainly make that argument.
I just think that with a little more help from the offense-perhaps as little as maybe 3 extra first downs in that second half, the defense gets the rest it needed and doesn't give up those plays.
I disagree. I think more offense definitely would've helped. But the 3 TD's the defense gave up were all on mental mistakes. Everyone keeps pointing to how gassed the D was, but, none of the 3 TD's the D gave up were on them being "beat." Had that happened, I'd be more ok with the loss. But the 4th and 1 run was right after half-time, so there's no excuse for them to be gassed. They were just lazy getting set and instead of anyone having the smarts to call a TO, they let the play start with most of the guys rushing to get in position. The other two passes involved blown coverages and guys being left wide open. Sure this is a young team, but 3 mental mistakes that large in one game? I don't even know if there was a single rookie on the field for any of those 3 plays. I thought Bryant, Clemons, and Poz' veteran leadership was supposed to make sure this team didn't have embarrassing gaffes like that? Granted Poz was out on the 4th and 1 run, but I don't know who else was in or out on the plays. That's what got me about this game. The amount of mental mistakes and how big they were.
More first downs could have helped the offense score in the first half, when the offense was clicking and driving. I'm with you that it was infuriating seeing a power back like Gerhardt not pick up 1 or 2 yards on any of those short yardage situations because of how awful the line looked. But, I just don't think any larger output of offense in the 2nd half, outside of scoring TD's, would have impacted the game more than marginally. Mental mistakes don't disappear just because the defense got to spend an extra 2 minutes sitting on the bench.
The rest of your initial post was well-thought out though and a welcome addition to the board compared to all the other "fire Gus" and "kill Henne" posts though. :thumbsup:
to me, the biggest disappointment is our clock management.
I expect better from a 7 year vet. I know he's working with a new Center, but calling time-out 3-4 times in one game because you can't get the play off in time is embarrassing.
Not sure who to blame, but there's 3 possible answers. Jedd, Chad, and Jacque.... all 3 are to blame for such elementary clock management.
Quote:I disagree. I think more offense definitely would've helped. But the 3 TD's the defense gave up were all on mental mistakes. Everyone keeps pointing to how gassed the D was, but, none of the 3 TD's the D gave up were on them being "beat." Had that happened, I'd be more ok with the loss. But the 4th and 1 run was right after half-time, so there's no excuse for them to be gassed. They were just lazy getting set and instead of anyone having the smarts to call a TO, they let the play start with most of the guys rushing to get in position. The other two passes involved blown coverages and guys being left wide open. Sure this is a young team, but 3 mental mistakes that large in one game? I don't even know if there was a single rookie on the field for any of those 3 plays. I thought Bryant, Clemons, and Poz' veteran leadership was supposed to make sure this team didn't have embarrassing gaffes like that? Granted Poz was out on the 4th and 1 run, but I don't know who else was in or out on the plays. That's what got me about this game. The amount of mental mistakes and how big they were.
More first downs could have helped the offense score in the first half, when the offense was clicking and driving. I'm with you that it was infuriating seeing a power back like Gerhardt not pick up 1 or 2 yards on any of those short yardage situations because of how awful the line looked. But, I just don't think any larger output of offense in the 2nd half, outside of scoring TD's, would have impacted the game more than marginally. Mental mistakes don't disappear just because the defense got to spend an extra 2 minutes sitting on the bench.
The rest of your initial post was well-thought out though and a welcome addition to the board compared to all the other "fire Gus" and "kill Henne" posts though. :thumbsup:
Thanks for the closing line LMD.
As to your analysis above, I would just have one question.
Why do you think, after playing so well up until that point, "They were just lazy getting set and instead of anyone having the smarts to call a TO, they let the play start with most of the guys rushing to get in position?"
If nothing else, the team thus far this year played with a lot of energy, especially on the defensive side of the ball, and especially today up until then.
If they weren't gassed...why lazy?
Quote:to me, the biggest disappointment is our clock management.
I expect better from a 7 year vet. I know he's working with a new Center, but calling time-out 3-4 times in one game because you can't get the play off in time is embarrassing.
Not sure who to blame, but there's 3 possible answers. Jedd, Chad, and Jacque.... all 3 are to blame for such elementary clock management.
I think, that's why the time out wasn't called on the Philly 4th down that went for a TD.
Quote:There was at least one screen Todman(?) had it gift wrapped, and several others as well. Their defense deserves credit for the batted balls (weren't happening the first half) but there were a lot of plays left on the field that should have been made by the receivers. One ball just about hit Marcedes in the head. He wasn't looking soon enough and didn't even get his hands up until after the ball passed.
You seem to be twisting, contorting, and falling on yourself, doing everything you can to make excuses for Henne.
Bottom line- competent QBs don't go 1-13 on third down. Take away Henne's last garbage time drive and he was something like 2-12 for 50 yards on the 2nd half.
Defense was whooping tail up until they were asked to be on the field every 90 seconds as the O couldn't maintain drives.
Henne was something like 7-21 in the second half before that last drive when the Eagles were in prevent.
3 drops at most, but it's hilarious hearing that excuse
Quote:Sorry, but that just doesn't hold water.
Bullseye--first of all, excellent post, and I love your analysis. But I must disagree on Henne.
How does that not hold water, pirkster?
Chad Henne had time to throw for most of the game, yet still opted for checkdowns the majority of the time. He wasted two times out on poor clock management (the third was on the C). MANY passes were at the feet of receivers, overthrown, or tipped at the line. He overthrew a wide open Marcedes Lewis on 4th and 1. Hell, even his two TD passes required adjustments by Hurns to be completed.
Yes, he suffered from three drops.
His inability to move the ball certainly contributed to the defense's collapse in my opinion. They were exhausted halfway through the third and it was obvious.
Quote:to me, the biggest disappointment is our clock management.
I expect better from a 7 year vet. I know he's working with a new Center, but calling time-out 3-4 times in one game because you can't get the play off in time is embarrassing.
Not sure who to blame, but there's 3 possible answers. Jedd, Chad, and Jacque.... all 3 are to blame for such elementary clock management.
Oh, btw, that Center (McClendon) sucks. Theres no reason Bowanko shouldn't instead be playing. Take your lumps now and let the interior future gel together. All we're doing is delaying further re-adjustment within the OL when Bowanko is inserted. I want to get all this OL crap settled by the time the put Bortles in.
Quote:Henne was something like 7-21 in the second half before that last drive when the Eagles were in prevent.
3 drops at most, but it's hilarious hearing that excuse
One of the things that bothers me about Henne is the number of batted passes he has.
Guys like Brees, Wison...heck even Flutie, didn't seem to have that many batted passes, and they are all shorter than Henne. Even with his windup, Leftwich didn't have that many batted passes at the LOS.
Is there something about Henne's delivery that tips defenders when he is going to pass?
Quote:You seem to be twisting, contorting, and falling on yourself, doing everything you can to make excuses for Henne.
Bottom line- competent QBs don't go 1-13 on third down. Take away Henne's last garbage time drive and he was something like 2-12 for 50 yards on the 2nd half.
Defense was whooping tail up until they were asked to be on the field every 90 seconds as the O couldn't maintain drives.
The 3rd down stat is the most damning.
Quote:The 3rd down stat is the most damning.
Especially when Henne is suppose to have audible abilities, isn't that why he's out there.
Quote:Oh, btw, that Center (McClendon) sucks. Theres no reason Bowanko shouldn't instead be playing. Take your lumps now and let the interior future gel together. All we're doing is delaying further re-adjustment within the OL when Bowanko is inserted. I want to get all this OL crap settled by the time the put Bortles in.
I agree. Let him play. Plus, he's "nasty" according to Lageman and Boselli. Isn't the best Center by any means and wasn't highly rated, but they say he's kind of a prick in how he plays. I like that. I think this offensive line needs a guy that will get in someone's face and get dirty so to speak.
Quote:One of the things that bothers me about Henne is the number of batted passes he has.
Guys like Brees, Wison...heck even Flutie, didn't seem to have that many batted passes, and they are all shorter than Henne. Even with his windup, Leftwich didn't have that many batted passes at the LOS.
Is there something about Henne's delivery that tips defenders when he is going to pass?
As mentioned earlier....Gabbert also had this happen frequently....
I remember they illustrated him on TV and showed how Gabbert "made himself small" in the pocket which led to these.....Henne probably does the same.
Quote: Henne didn't lose this game by giving them 34 points. But then, I doubt you'll understand just how asinine that truly sounds anyway...
No. He helped lose it by not being able to lead us to scoring drives to respond to their first 14 unanswered points. Help the defense out just a little bit there and this is a different ball game. It falls on the QB there, and a better QB would have willed something.
Quote:I agree. Let him play. Plus, he's "nasty" according to Lageman and Boselli. Isn't the best Center by any means and wasn't highly rated, but they say he's kind of a [BAD WORD REMOVED] in how he plays. I like that. I think this offensive line needs a guy that will get in someone's face and get dirty so to speak.
Like with Bortles, delaying the inevitable.
Quote:Bulleyes--first of all, excellent post, and I love your analysis. But I must disagree on Henne.
Chad Henne had time to throw for most of the game, yet still opted for checkdowns the majority of the time. He wasted two times out on poor clock management (the third was on the C). MANY passes were at the feet of receivers, overthrown, or tipped at the line. He overthrew a wide open Marcedes Lewis on 4th and 1. Hell, even his two TD passes required adjustments by Hurns to be completed.
Yes, he suffered from three drops.
His inability to move the ball certainly contributed to the defense's collapse in my opinion. They were exhausted halfway through the third and it was obvious.
Thanks for the kudos...and I can understand the disagreement over Henne.
I reiterate I was not exactly thrilled with his second half performance.
I won't knock him for the checkdowns yet, because I don't know what was called on either side, what the receivers were supposed to do vs what they actually did, etc.
But he didn't have the devastating, Matt Schaubesque turnover that was the catalyst to the Eagles comeback.
Quote:One of the things that bothers me about Henne is the number of batted passes he has.
Guys like Brees, Wison...heck even Flutie, didn't seem to have that many batted passes, and they are all shorter than Henne. Even with his windup, Leftwich didn't have that many batted passes at the LOS.
Is there something about Henne's delivery that tips defenders when he is going to pass?
I noticed on one play is that he was staring down a receiver, never looked anywhere else or pump faked, and of course the pass was batted down by the d lineman just timing it right.
he had one where Todman was supposed to block Barwin - he should've cut Barwin to get him to go low, so that one is on Todman, not Chad.
I think he gets so many batted down because he stares down his receivers, doesn't really move guys with his eyes, doesn't pump fake often enough etc..,