Quote:The 3rd down stat is the most damning.
It IS damning.
But given the constant long yardage he had to work with, it is understandable. Constant 3rd and 8+ yards is hard for just about any QB to consistently overcome.
Quote:It IS damning.
But given the constant long yardage he had to work with, it is understandable. Constant 3rd and 8+ yards is hard for just about any QB to consistently overcome.
we also had something like 3 drives where we were 3rd and 1 and we still didn't manage to get a 1st down.
we're just not a very good team at moving the ball at all.
we're better off just taking shots downfield because it appears that we have some WRs that can actually make plays
I also remember a statistic deep in the 2nd half that had average yards to go on 3rd down and ours was something like 5.5 while the eagles had 8 yards to go.
Quote:I noticed on one play is that he was staring down a receiver, never looked anywhere else or pump faked, and of course the pass was batted down by the d lineman just timing it right.
he had one where Todman was supposed to block Barwin - he should've cut Barwin to get him to go low, so that one is on Todman, not Chad.
I think he gets so many batted down because he stares down his receivers, doesn't really move guys with his eyes, doesn't pump fake often enough etc..,
Quote:As mentioned earlier....Gabbert also had this happen frequently....
I remember they illustrated him on TV and showed how Gabbert "made himself small" in the pocket which led to these.....Henne probably does the same.
Both of these sound plausible.
All I know is I am tired of trying to explain or understand why this happens so much with Henne.
Quote:Thanks for the closing line LMD.
As to your analysis above, I would just have one question.
Why do you think, after playing so well up until that point, "They were just lazy getting set and instead of anyone having the smarts to call a TO, they let the play start with most of the guys rushing to get in position?"
If nothing else, the team thus far this year played with a lot of energy, especially on the defensive side of the ball, and especially today up until then.
If they weren't gassed...why lazy?
I can't speak for them but I'd imagine it probably had to do with it being 4th and 1 and the Eagles going into a hurry up offense. To argue that they were gassed on the first (or 2nd. I honestly can't remember) drive of the half would be setting the bar pretty low don't you think? You'd be saying the defense can't be trusted to play defense for one drive. They just had a 30 minute halftime. If they can't play for one or two series, why are they playing? I have more faith in them than to write them off and say they got too gassed after one or two series of defense to play at the level they showed in the first half.
I don't doubt by the end of the game they were gassed. The offense wasn't good enough. But I just don't think the 3 TD's came from them being gassed. They were all mental mistakes. One came right after halftime, one came from a guy who was on the field for maybe 10 plays up to that point. Blaming it on being gassed, I think, is selling those guys way too short.
Quote:we also had something like 3 drives where we were 3rd and 1 and we still didn't manage to get a 1st down.
we're just not a very good team at moving the ball at all.
we're better off just taking shots downfield because it appears that we have some WRs that can actually make plays
That brings me back to the bad run blocking.
Quote:I can't speak for them but I'd imagine it probably had to do with it being 4th and 1 and the Eagles going into a hurry up offense. To argue that they were gassed on the first (or 2nd. I honestly can't remember) drive of the half would be setting the bar pretty low don't you think? You'd be saying the defense can't be trusted to play defense for one drive. They just had a 30 minute halftime. If they can't play for one or two series, why are they playing? I have more faith in them than to write them off and say they got too gassed after one or two series of defense to play at the level they showed in the first half.
I don't doubt by the end of the game they were gassed. The offense wasn't good enough. But I just don't think the 3 TD's came from them being gassed. They were all mental mistakes. One came right after halftime, one came from a guy who was on the field for maybe 10 plays up to that point. Blaming it on being gassed, I think, is selling those guys way too short.
Good points.
But even if not gassed at these points, you DO acknowledge a far lower possibility of the Eagles offense scoring if the Jaguars have the ball...don't you?
Quote:Both of these sound plausible.
All I know is I am tired of trying to explain or understand why this happens so much with Henne.
It was clear today why it happens. You could see him lock in on receivers. Opposing linemen know if he's looking your way get your hands up. He telegraphs.
The thoughts and points in this thread are very good, the only thing I would like to add is that tackling got sloppy at times, it may not seem like a huge thing but some of the runs that could have been stopped behind the line of scrimmage were allowed to gain good yards changing the position and situation
Quote:It was clear today why it happens. You could see him lock in on receivers. Opposing linemen know if he's looking your way get your hands up. He telegraphs.
Didnt Barwin play for the tin horns? Maybe he got the word out. He had one today.
Excellent analysis, Bullseye. As is your usual. I agree with you all the way except...
I've not been at all a start Bortles guy. I see it as inevitable, but I understand the reasoning that he will be more polished when the day comes. However, the other argument for starting Henne was that he would play faster (quoth Gus), getting the team in and out of the huddle quickly. How many times out did we call for play clock expiration? We don't know what was being said in the huddle, but it would have been hard for us to have more difficulty getting out and playing fast. Heck, I think that the breakdown...failure to call time out while the Iggles were lining up for that 4th and 1 play (which would have been the smart play) was limited because one of the times out was called earlier for a play clock near-expiration.
Tipped passes, slow play, it's time. Roll out the Bortles.
Otherwise, while disappointed I see a lot more to be excited about than I see what makes me angry. I hope Cyprian is back soon...he is a key player. Perhaps the key player on defense.
Jim
Quote:Good points.
But even if not gassed at these points, you DO acknowledge a far lower possibility of the Eagles offense scoring if the Jaguars have the ball...don't you?
I don't know if I'd say "far lower" given the circumstances. Obviously the Eagles offense can't score if the Jags have the ball. The chances would obviously go down. That was part of what made that 2007 offense so great to watch; they held the ball and moved down the field to score. Kept opposing teams offenses on the sidelines and wore down the defenses. Lots of long drives on that team.
The 3 TD's to me though, were different than that. They were the type of mental mistakes that could have happened if the Eagles offense had the ball for 7 minutes or 30. They weren't great plays called in the perfect situations. Its not like they had been running McCoy down the Jags throats all game and then executed a beautiful playaction screen on 4th and 1 which the whole defense bit on. Its not like they saw an all out blitz coming, audibled, and got off a hurried bubble screen, where one block sprung the receiver to daylight.They hurried to the line and got off a play before the Jags were set, they ran a play where "Special Teams Only" Pros lost his assignment, and they ran a play where what looked to be 4 guys all stared at one guy wondering "Darn, was I supposed to be guarding him? Was it someone else? How is he so open?"
Obviously you want your offense to hold the ball as long as possible, and score as frequently as possible. But I think that in order to diminish the chances of the Eagles scoring, in the way their offense did, you'd need the Jags to never give the Eagles the ball. That seems quite lofty to me. Obviously we can play the butterfly effect game and say "well, if the Jags had x amount of first downs more, than the Eagles wouldn't have run y play and caused z result that led to the touchdown." But I just think the offense is getting a disproportionate amount of the blame; the D messed up. They're young and it happens. It sucks to have happen and its the worst way for them to mess up, in my own opinion, just because of how frustrating it is. But that's what you get with young players. So many people seem to want to spare them and put all the blame on the offense for this game, but the defense gave up 27 points. 21 off of touchdowns that came from broken plays. It's basically arguing semantics at this point between you and I, as to how much worse the chances are of the Eagles scoring are if the Jaguars get 3 more first downs, or if they get 30 more first downs. But, I think its important to point out that the defense wasn't without blame, and I don't think their miscues should be transferred to the offense.
"If the offense had more first downs, the defense wouldn't have been as tired." "If Henne could have completed his passes, the Eagles wouldn't have been able to score on the Jaguars defense." "If Dennis Northcutt doesn't drop that TD, Tom Brady doesn't set the record for single game completion percentage in the post-season." Its the same song and dance on this board; we always have to have one person, or one side of the football, to blame.
Quote:One of the things that bothers me about Henne is the number of batted passes he has.
Guys like Brees, Wison...heck even Flutie, didn't seem to have that many batted passes, and they are all shorter than Henne. Even with his windup, Leftwich didn't have that many batted passes at the LOS.
Is there something about Henne's delivery that tips defenders when he is going to pass?
Well, he couldn't lock on any tighter to a receiver if he had laser sights. I imagine that's part of it.
Quote:0. Excellent writeup. I agree with just about everything you said. But ...
1. I think the odds are better on converting 4th and 1 than stopping the Eagles offense in time to score a TD, with no timeouts left.
2. Yes, Scobee was getting the ball into the end zone. He had a streak several years ago when he missed some kicks, but I don't remember anything recently. From my observation, it looked like the blocked FG was also Scobee's fault, he didn't get it up fast enough, but I could be wrong about that.
Thank you Mal.
1. That call was debatable, and as I said, I understand the rationale. I think Gus was wrong in the call, not necessarily "off his rocker."
2. I have no idea what caused that blocked FG, other than an Eagle defender timing his jump well and maybe a lower than normal kick.
Quote:Excellent analysis, Bullseye. As is your usual. I agree with you all the way except...
I've not been at all a start Bortles guy. I see it as inevitable, but I understand the reasoning that he will be more polished when the day comes. However, the other argument for starting Henne was that he would play faster (quoth Gus), getting the team in and out of the huddle quickly. How many times out did we call for play clock expiration? We don't know what was being said in the huddle, but it would have been hard for us to have more difficulty getting out and playing fast. Heck, I think that the breakdown...failure to call time out while the Iggles were lining up for that 4th and 1 play (which would have been the smart play) was limited because one of the times out was called earlier for a play clock near-expiration.
Tipped passes, slow play, it's time. Roll out the Bortles.
Otherwise, while disappointed I see a lot more to be excited about than I see what makes me angry. I hope Cyprian is back soon...he is a key player. Perhaps the key player on defense.
Jim
Thank you JagJim.
I believe in bringing Bortles along slowly, but for different reasons than the rationales stated above. On a basic level, I think the OL is not strong, and I'd rather have Henne take the abuse when the OL is struggling to get its stuff together, then later on when the OL has some cohesion, let the rookie come in.
Now the coaches offered those other rationales for sitting Bortles. I am in no position to challenge those particular rationales.
I don't know who to blame for those delay of game avoiding time outs that were called.
In short, I am not sure we are in disagreement over Bortles, at least not for the reasons you list.
I completely agree with going for it on 4th and 1, Im suprised it's really even up for question, not only was in the right call it was even a perfect play and if Henne had waited even half a second longer he would of had Marcedes even more wide open than he already was.
Cyprien leaving the game was massive absolutely massive not only did they seem to get more confident going deep when he want off, being a big hitting safety that he is, one of the benefits is that after one of those monster hits that he's capable of it can stop an offenses momentum and get the defence fired up.
The Oline was bad in run block but also I dont think as bad as people are mention, Gerhart shares that responsibility for the bad game, especially when we pulled DRob out of the game we lost that versaility.
The run game being absolutely non existent put a lot of pressure on Henne to keep us in the lead, obviously he's not a good enough quarterback to be able to do it all by himself, but to put the blame solely on him is ridiculous.
I would of been up for bringing Bortles in when we was 7 down to let him try and spark something but meh.
Hurns looked great, Lee came into the game alot more late and looked good, whether that is due to the fact Hurns was getting double and triple teamed I dont know.
Robinson didnt look good but he's had a few injuries and is probably just adjusting.
Is Allen Robinson role on offense just to catch 1 yard screen passes around the hash marks and hope he gets YAC? That's all I saw that was run for him. Our coaches are dumb.