Quote:Since 2011 I can only recall like 2 "spectacular" catches. Neither he went up to get.
naa, he had the one his rookie year against the Chargers where he had to leap up and come down with it. He has made a number of back shoulder catches where he had to jump up and get it.
Quote:naa, he had the one his rookie year against the Chargers where he had to leap up and come down with it. He has made a number of back shoulder catches where he had to jump up and get it.
If you're trying to argue Shorts' strengths I wouldn't go with this one. Shorts isn't a guy who is gonna win a jump ball most of the time.
Quote:I am sure the amount of playing time had something to do with that. Undrafted rookies need to play a lot more in preseason than default starters, obviously. But it tells me Allen Hurns should have been drafted by somebody and we got a steal.
oh you mean his rookie year in the league after coming from a d3 college?
yeah it must be that he needed a better wr coach and it wasnt him getting comfortable playing in the nfl.
i mean........ he was awful in college right?
Quote:If you're trying to argue Shorts' strengths I wouldn't go with this one. Shorts isn't a guy who is gonna win a jump ball most of the time.
yet he has. Even if he isn't, neither is Hurns... or else we would have seen it at some point. I watched his senior highlight vid and I didn't see one catch that required him to win a jump ball.
which proves my point, that Hurns doesn't do anything Shorts cant.
Im not arguing Shorts is Larry Fitzgerald. But he is closer to that than Hurns. He is better than Hurns... that is the point of this debate.
Quote:naa, he had the one his rookie year against the Chargers where he had to leap up and come down with it. He has made a number of back shoulder catches where he had to jump up and get it.
so now people are trying to measure how good a wr is by how many "spectacular catches" they make?
getting pretty ridiculous.....
Quote:A fan who can see more important jobs than backup running back for Jordan Todman's roster spot.
Keeping Todman makes Storm Johnson look like a wasted draft pick.
a 7th round pick looks like a wasted pick because 3 guys with NFL experience are ahead of him before he plays a down in the NFL?
yep....makes no sense at all...
Quote:yet he has. Even if he isn't, neither is Hurns... or else we would have seen it at some point. I watch his senior highlight vid and I didn't see one catch that required him to win a jump ball.
which proves my point, that Hurns doesn't do anything Shorts cant
.
Im not arguing Shorts is Larry Fitzgerald. But he is closer to that than Hurns. He is better than Hurns... that is the point of this debate.
He can hopefully stay healthy.
Quote:yet he has. Even if he isn't, neither is Hurns... or else we would have seen it at some point. I watch his senior highlight vid and I didn't see one catch that required him to win a jump ball.
which proves my point, that Hurns doesn't do anything Shorts cant.
Im not arguing Shorts is Larry Fitzgerald. But he is closer to that than Hurns. He is better than Hurns... that is the point of this debate.
hurns has made 0 difficult catches in the nfl. he has actually made 0 easy catches too.
Quote:so now people are trying to measure how good a wr is by how many "spectacular catches" they make?
getting pretty ridiculous.....
id say its pretty important... I guess you would prefer a guy who only catches the balls perfectly thrown to him?
Quote:hurns has made 0 difficult catches in the nfl. he has actually made 0 easy catches too.
that makes 0 sense
lets put it this way, Hurns has yet to make a catch that the average NFL receiver cant make.
Quote:that makes 0 sense
lets put it this way, Hurns has yet to make a catch that the average NFL receiver cant make.
my point is that hurns hasnt played a single NFL game yet. shorts is established and productive.
idk what your or the other posters definition of spectacular catch is. i think shorts makes plenty of difficult catches. but this isnt madden where guys get a boost in rating for "spectacular catch" is all i meant.
i would def prefer them to catch with their hands and not body catch.
Quote:There is the occasional pass where he has to extend his arms. That is the exception. Are you really going to argue that he doesn't catch it with his body most of the time? It's pretty obvious. You spent way too much time finding pictures to prove basically nothing other than sometimes he had to use he hands.
Even in those instances. That isn't really what Im referring to. Receivers generally are taught to catch the ball in front of them with their hands. Hurns usually cradles the ball against his body. Which is what he would have done in those pictures had he not needed to extend his arms.
You said all of the time. Not most of the time. That's what I proved. That your original statement was false. It took me less than two minutes at NFL.com to screengrab those photos.
Yes - He made several catches trapping the ball against his body. I think for an UDFA who gets to work under Sully - it's a very, very small gripe. Not concerned with it. He's shown the ability to make a tough catch with his hands. That's all I have to see. Sully will take it from there.
It's a guy in a Jags uniform
catching the football. You should be ecstatic. :woot:
Quote:my point is that hurns hasnt played a single NFL game yet. shorts is established and productive.
idk what your or the other posters definition of spectacular catch is. i think shorts makes plenty of difficult catches. but this isnt madden where guys get a boost in rating for "spectacular catch" is all i meant.
i would def prefer them to catch with their hands and not body catch.
idk what Madden has to do with it, but it's nice to have a receiver who can make a big play and catch a ball most receivers cant. Shorts has that bit of athleticism required to make acrobatic catches. If Hurns has that, I haven't seen it.
So, what we've established here is that Hurns needs work, he's not the most talented receiver on the team, and probably not even better than Cecil Shorts, who happens to be the only receiver on the roster with any real success in the NFL. Is Shorts the greatest receiver ever? No. Is he terrible? No. But, he's the best we've got, and that's a fact that won't be changing any time soon. The hope is that the rookies will live up to expectation, but history tells us that even if they do, the odds of it happening this year are minimal. We need one of them at least to prove they are capable of playing at this level just so we have some balance and defenses can't key on one guy and shut our passing game down. Hopefully, Robinson, Lee, and Hurns all show they're capable of helping this team improve in the passing game. Until they do so, Shorts is the best receiver on this roster.
Quote:You said all of the time. Not most of the time. That's what I proved. That your original statement was false. It took me less than two minutes at NFL.com to screengrab those photos.
Yes - He made several catches trapping the ball against his body. I think for an UDFA who gets to work under Sully - it's a very, very small gripe. Not concerned with it. He's shown the ability to make a tough catch with his hands. That's all I have to see. Sully will take it from there.
It's a guy in a Jags uniform catching the football. You should be ecstatic. :woot:
No, not several, ALMOST ALL of his catches are that way. Ya im glad he is playing well, but im not going to let some preseason hitch routes make me think he is better than Shorts who has shown some pretty remarkable abilities with our team.
The way he catches it tells me a lot. It just means he isn't going to be able to make those catches you see guys like Allen Robinson made in college. One on one, go up and get it high.
Quote:No, not several, ALMOST ALL of his catches are that way. Ya im glad he is playing well, but im not going to let some preseason hitch routes make me think he is better than Shorts who has shown some pretty remarkable abilities with our team.
The way he catches it tells me a lot. It just means he isn't going to be able to make those catches you see guys like Allen Robinson made in college. One on one, go up and get it high.
Don't you think it may be a little early in the kid's career for you to be writing him off completely on what catches he will never make?
(I already agreed that Shorts belongs ahead of him on the depth chart in case you missed it. I just think Hurns has a bit more upside longterm.)
Quote:yet he has. Even if he isn't, neither is Hurns... or else we would have seen it at some point. I watched his senior highlight vid and I didn't see one catch that required him to win a jump ball.
which proves my point, that Hurns doesn't do anything Shorts cant.
So far Hurns can catch the football and that might be a small advantage.
Quote:Don't you think it may be a little early in the kid's career for you to be writing him off completely on what catches he will never make?
(I already agreed that Shorts belongs ahead of him on the depth chart in case you missed it. I just think Hurns has a bit more upside longterm.)
No. Players dont become different player types in the pros after college. Their game translates to the pros or it doesnt. AJ Green didnt suddenly figure out how to make big plays. He did it in college.
Hurns college career is basically what we have seen so far this preseason. Mostly underneath routes. I argue he wont be able to beat guys deep with his legs as easily in the nfl like he did at miami.
I didnt write him off. This is him vs shorts. He loses.
more upside? That is where you guys are wrong. His style and game tape show less potential than Shorts.
Quote:So far Hurns can catch the football and that might be a small advantage.
Oh neat. Lets book him for Canton.
Quote:No. Players dont become different player types in the pros after college. Their game translates to the pros or it doesnt. AJ Green didnt suddenly figure out how to make big plays. He did it in college.
Hurns college career is basically what we have seen so far this preseason. Mostly underneath routes. I argue he wont be able to beat guys deep with his legs as easily in the nfl like he did at miami.
I didnt write him off. This is him vs shorts. He loses.
more upside? That is where you guys are wrong. His style and game tape show less potential than Shorts.
He loses out to Shorts, but he can still be a contributor in this offense. We'll see soon enough if his game translates to the NFL.