Quote:The broken record has returned.
Its not a broken record.
If those 3 didn't show something impressive, the other WR wouldnt be expendable.
I don't see how people can't really like what they are seeing out of Hurns/ Taylor/ Brown. They all get open and with the exception of that one game by Brown, they generally all have decent hands.
If the Jags can capitalize on Shorts' perceived value around the league and get help on the OL in exchange for him, whats the harm? He's on a contract year anyway. I don't think we need to pay him. That money will be better spent elsewhere as to me its evident that we can get similar WR play from pretty much any of the 3 mentioned above.
This isn't hating on Shorts. Its just being opportunistic regarding the situation.
Quote:Its not a broken record.
If those 3 didn't show something impressive, the other WR wouldnt be expendable.
I don't see how people can't really like what they are seeing out of Hurns/ Taylor/ Brown. They all get open and with the exception of that one game by Brown, they generally all have decent hands.
If the Jags can capitalize on Shorts' perceived value around the league and get help on the OL in exchange for him, whats the harm? He's on a contract year anyway. I don't think we need to pay him. That money will be better spent elsewhere as to me its evident that we can get similar WR play from pretty much any of the 3 mentioned above.
This isn't hating on Shorts. Its just being opportunistic regarding the situation.
This perceived value for Shorts is your fantasy, not any actual fact supporting it.
Regardless of how well the other receivers perform, three of them you've been drooling over from afar are rookies. History doesn't bode well for rookies hitting the ground running. It's one of the things you constantly bashed Shorts over, remember? His rookie season didn't meet your standards.
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^^^^
Brown already showed more last year than Shorts did as a rookie. By alot.
Kerry Taylor looks like a player that isn't afraid of the big stage and Hurns, ditto.
Quote:^^^^
Brown already showed more last year than Shorts did as a rookie. By alot.
Kerry Taylor looks like a player that isn't afraid of the big stage and Hurns, ditto.
Mike Brown wasn't a rookie last year though. Not sure I understand your point.
Quote:Mike Brown wasn't a rookie last year though. Not sure I understand your point.
While true, it was Brown's first year here.
I was responding to the post that seemed to try and compare the 2 situations.
I really don't get why the sentiment around here seems to be that Shorts is some sort of "can't lose" player. I honestly think we'd be fine without him with the group of the aforementioned 3 (Hurns/ Taylor/ Brown) , plus Lee & Robinson.
Its partially the benefit of the WR coach we have, as well as better talent evaluation of the position for players that we've brought in over the past several years.
People are still scared that we'll somehow end up with a Walker/ Hill/ Northcutt sort of group again, and those days are long gone.
Plus, the impact of Bortles simply being a better QB helps make the WR we have, better too. The WR don't have to be "wide open" anymore for them to actually be "open" for Bortles.
We really need OL help and Shorts is the one player who IMO is expendable and has value to help make it happen. You don't want to give away future draft choices when you can simply trade away a veteran piece instead.
Quote:No it wasn't?
He was here in 2012? I didn't remember that, if so. Either way, it really doesn't matter.
The only thing that matters is the combo of Hurns/ Brown/ Taylor look like very capable WR's / replacements.
Quote:^^^^
Brown already showed more last year than Shorts did as a rookie. By alot.
Kerry Taylor looks like a player that isn't afraid of the big stage and Hurns, ditto.
I like Brown a lot to but he has some athletic shortcomings. I think given the age of the other receivers on the roster keeping a veteran like Shorts who has shown he can be productive when he's on the fields is almost a necessity. Unless you could get Alex Mack for him.
Quote:I'm getting the suspicion that these two guys are fighting for one spot.
I really really like Mike Brown, and two weeks ago I would have said that he was a lock, but I think Taylor may be making a move for his roster spot.
How do you guys see it and who would you like to see us keep? Any way they both make it? Any way they both get cut?
We have Cecil Shorts III, Marquise Lee, Allen Robison, Ace Sanders and Allen Hurns. That's five spots taken up right there. How many did we carry last season on the 53 man roster. Brown and Taylor have been neck-and-neck this pre-season IMHO. Can't really tell the two apart. One drive they'll catch two or three passes, than the next they'll drop a few passes that make you cringe a bit.
Quote:I like Brown a lot to but he has some athletic shortcomings. I think given the age of the other receivers on the roster keeping a veteran like Shorts who has shown he can be productive when he's on the fields is almost a necessity. Unless you could get Alex Mack for him.
Given where we are....there isn't a better time than now to deal him, if they chose to go that route. We're not expecting to contend this year and any repetitions Brown/ Hurns/ Taylor get will become valuable in their development for future years.
Plus all 3 are vastly cheaper than what Shorts will cost (with his pending contract re-signing).
I don't see Shorts as the kind of player you re-sign to big money. He's not a dominating WR1 type. IMO, you draft and develop the kind of replacements for Shorts and can do so effectively. You keep/ re-sign the Demaryus Thomas/ Dez Bryant/ AJ Green types.
If we can get that San Fran OG in exchange for Shorts, you do it.
Cecil Shorts has made multiple game-winning plays in the last two years.
I like Mike Brown a lot but he will never make the plays that Shorts did at the end of either the Colts game in 2012 or the Cleveland game last year. He doesn't have that skillset.
Quote:Cecil Shorts has made multiple game-winning plays in the last two years.
I like Mike Brown a lot but he will never make the plays that Shorts did at the end of either the Colts game in 2012 or the Cleveland game last year. He doesn't have that skillset.
Maybe he won't....but Lee or Robinson likely will. (maybe even others like Hurns might, too) and in the meantime, Brown will still be fairly productive.
We're just going to agree to disagree here. I see Shorts as absolutely expendable. You somehow see him as a must keep.
As said, if the Niners agree to make that trade of Shorts for that holdout Guard I'd make the deal in a nanosecond.
The WR we have leftover are legit.
Quote:Given where we are....there isn't a better time than now to deal him, if they chose to go that route. We're not expecting to contend this year and any repetitions Brown/ Hurns/ Taylor get will become valuable in their development for future years.
Plus all 3 are vastly cheaper than what Shorts will cost (with his pending contract re-signing).
I don't see Shorts as the kind of player you re-sign to big money. He's not a dominating WR1 type. IMO, you draft and develop the kind of replacements for Shorts and can do so effectively. You keep/ re-sign the Demaryus Thomas/ Dez Bryant/ AJ Green types.
If we can get that San Fran OG in exchange for Shorts, you do it.
You're the only one thinking Shorts & big money in the same sentence...now you're just setting up for a rant about how we coulda, shoulda, woulda down the road.
Quote:Maybe he won't....but Lee or Robinson likely will. (maybe even others like Hurns might, too) and in the meantime, Brown will still be fairly productive.
We're just going to agree to disagree here. I see Shorts as absolutely expendable. You somehow see him as a must keep.
As said, if the Niners agree to make that trade of Shorts for that holdout Guard I'd make the deal in a nanosecond.
The WR we have leftover are legit.
I didn't say anything remotely close to that.
Quote:Maybe he won't....but Lee or Robinson likely will. (maybe even others like Hurns might, too) and in the meantime, Brown will still be fairly productive.
We're just going to agree to disagree here. I see Shorts as absolutely expendable. You somehow see him as a must keep.
As said, if the Niners agree to make that trade of Shorts for that holdout Guard I'd make the deal in a nanosecond.
The WR we have leftover are legit.
I'm trying really hard not to start arguments with people on this board anymore but how dumb can you be to contiously bash Cecil Shorts when he is our CLEAR CUT #1. I know you're butthurt over Blackmon and all but come on dude.. he's not expendable, he's the LEAST expendable player on our offense right now.
Quote:People are still scared that we'll somehow end up with a Walker/ Hill/ Northcutt sort of group again, and those days are long gone.
Hill aka the next Jimmy Smith?
Quote:I didn't say anything remotely close to that.
Not in exact words, but the implication seems strong.
Again, agree to disagree on CS3.
The Jags actually are going to have an embarrassment of riches at the WR position come cut down day.
Quote:I'm trying really hard not to start arguments with people on this board anymore but how dumb can you be to contiously bash Cecil Shorts when he is our CLEAR CUT #1. I know you're butthurt over Blackmon and all but come on dude.. he's not expendable, he's the LEAST expendable player on our offense right now.
Strongly disagree.
Expendable, and much better value (considering Shorts' impending big money contract extension) can be had with a WR corps of Lee/ Robinson/ Hurns/ Taylor/ Brown/ (and Doss if 6 are kept)
Quote:Not in exact words, but the implication seems strong.
Again, agree to disagree on CS3.
The Jags actually are going to have an embarrassment of riches at the WR position come cut down day.
I would love to see you quote something where I even came close to implying that Shorts is a "must keep." I said he is capable of making plays that Mike Brown isn't - which you agreed with.
Surely there must be something else?