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http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/euro...ingtonpost

 

 

Not good, anyway you slice it just not good.

Thought this was about the missing Malaysian plane at first.

Thoughts and prayers to the families of the lost loved ones. This pro-Russian separatist/Ukraine standoff is getting ridiculous and of course both blame each other.


On a side note, Malaysia Airlines is one airline I will not be using.

If Russia was behind this, it'll be interesting to see how the US responds. 

Giving weapons to separatists can make bad bad things happen....

Quote:Giving weapons to separatists can make bad bad things happen....

 

Only if there's someone out there willing to hold the provider accountable.  Right now, there isn't.

It's not confirmed it was shot down. 

Quote:It's not confirmed it was shot down.

That's only a formality at this point.

Quote:If Russia was behind this, it'll be interesting to see how the US responds. 

 

What reason would Russia have to in anyway be involved. When stuff like this happens I always look at who would benefit? Ukraine sure would benefit from it, would drum up sympathy for them in a conflict they stand ZERO chance of winning without outside help. Wouldn't be the first time a regime blew up one of their own to blame the opposition.

Quote:It's not confirmed it was shot down. 

There are zero reports refuting the fact that it was shot down. 

Quote:What reason would Russia have to in anyway be involved. When stuff like this happens I always look at who would benefit? Ukraine sure would benefit from it, would drum up sympathy for them in a conflict they stand ZERO chance of winning without outside help. Wouldn't be the first time a regime blew up one of their own to blame the opposition.

It's not one of their own planes. 

 

There have been more than 2 dozen planes shot down recently in that region by the Russian backed rebels.  Best case scenario, they fired on the airliner thinking it was a Ukrainian military jet.  Worst case, they didn't care about anything other than the fact that it was in their airspace. 

Quote:It's not one of their own planes. 

 

There have been more than 2 dozen planes shot down recently in that region by the Russian backed rebels.  Best case scenario, they fired on the airliner thinking it was a Ukrainian military jet.  Worst case, they didn't care about anything other than the fact that it was in their airspace. 

Where did you get two dozen? Because highest number I heard so far is this make three.

 

 

And if they didn't do anything when they shot down the Korean Air plane in the 80's they're not going to do anything now either. 

Quote:It's not one of their own planes. 

 

There have been more than 2 dozen planes shot down recently in that region by the Russian backed rebels.  Best case scenario, they fired on the airliner thinking it was a Ukrainian military jet.  Worst case, they didn't care about anything other than the fact that it was in their airspace. 

 

that was 2 military planes they shot down in that area, Ukrainian military planes. What purpose would the Russian backed rebels who haven't made it a practice of targeting civilians (not taking sides for the record) have to shoot down a civilian plane.

 

Also this plane was traveling at 10,000 Kilometers, you don't "accidentally" hit a plane at 10,000 Kilometers, the tech needed to make that strick is complicated and it takes someone knowing how to operate it to even find the target.

 

There's plenty of benefit for Russia to take down military planes, ZERO benefit taking down a civilian plane it would actually be counter-productive, again the only one that would benefit would be Ukraine. It would be Ukraine hope that after this "tragedy" the US and UN would take their side officially rather then remaining neutral and out of the conflict.

 

The only way you can really pin it on Russian rebels was if you buy one of two arguments, they intended to take down a civilian target or they accidentally hit the civilian target, neither of which I see as plausible. Not saying Ukraine did it either, just that I'm not sure I buy the official narrative everyone so quick to jump on right now.

A true tragedy. The 777 is a fine aircraft.

Quote:Where did you get two dozen? Because highest number I heard so far is this make three.

 

 

And if they didn't do anything when they shot down the Korean Air plane in the 80's they're not going to do anything now either. 

 

I'll see if I can find the precise article where I saw the number of planes shot down as being 26 in recent months, but this article references "several" Ukrainian planes being shot down in the area in recent months, including 2 in the past week. Several would be more than 3.

 

As far as the Korean Air jet being shot down and no response, the US response was pretty extensive, including adding additional Pershing missile batteries in Europe, sanctions that prevented Soviet airliners from flying in US air space,  That incident actually ratcheted up the Cold War to the point where we almost went to war with the Soviets. 

 

Interestingly enough, that incident also facilitated the expansion of the GPS system for private use by companies and individuals. 

 

BTW, witness reports in Russia indicate the jet was hit by a missile. 

Quote:that was 2 military planes they shot down in that area, Ukrainian military planes. What purpose would the Russian backed rebels who haven't made it a practice of targeting civilians (not taking sides for the record) have to shoot down a civilian plane.

 

Also this plane was traveling at 10,000 Kilometers, you don't "accidentally" hit a plane at 10,000 Kilometers, the tech needed to make that strick is complicated and it takes someone knowing how to operate it to even find the target.

 

There's plenty of benefit for Russia to take down military planes, ZERO benefit taking down a civilian plane it would actually be counter-productive, again the only one that would benefit would be Ukraine. It would be Ukraine hope that after this "tragedy" the US and UN would take their side officially rather then remaining neutral and out of the conflict.

 

The only way you can really pin it on Russian rebels was if you buy one of two arguments, they intended to take down a civilian target or they accidentally hit the civilian target, neither of which I see as plausible. Not saying Ukraine did it either, just that I'm not sure I buy the official narrative everyone so quick to jump on right now.

 

Like I said, it's possible they made a mistake and thought it was a military plane.  The tech involved is irrelevant when you put it in the hands of people who only know how to lock the radar and launch the missile.  Reports indicate they only got their hands on this technology and these missiles in recent weeks.

Quote:Like I said, it's possible they made a mistake and thought it was a military plane.  The tech involved is irrelevant when you put it in the hands of people who only know how to lock the radar and launch the missile.  Reports indicate they only got their hands on this technology and these missiles in recent weeks.

 

But that means you have to accept the argument they know how to operate one of the most sophisticated mobile missile launching systems but don't know how to tell the difference from a commercial flight or military plane. It's just more plausible to me that whoever shot this thing down did it intentionally, anyone that can operate that equipment can tell the difference between a commercial plane and a military plane.

 

I could see if it was low flying and taken down with a shoulder fire rocket like an RPG just aim and fire, but this is a on board programed GPS guided missile system.

So how many people on here think the plane was shot down by secret operatives to try to start a war?

 

I'm seeing a lot of "false flag" talk.

 

How many people think this plane is the same plane that went "missing"?

Also I think this article is telling http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...000ft.html

 

one of the leaders of the "resistance" even admits if they had a BUK surface to air missle system they didn't have guys that would know how to use it.

 

"

In a statement Donetsk separatist leader Andrei Purgin said that he was certain that Ukrainian troops had shot it down but gave no explanation for that statement.

Purgin said he was not aware of whether rebel forces owned BUK missile launchers, but even if they did, there had no fighters capable of operating it. "


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z37l79C1if

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