Quote:Thank you. If the opposition can't even concede that the blanket statement of "A man should NEVER hit a woman" has holes, then any other discussion is pointless.
This coming from someone who is fine with Bethel's actions and is going to extremes to try to prove a point. Good on you.
A life threatening situation and simply retaliating in the case stated are so opposite ends of the spectrum that if you can't use common sense to figure it out then it's a lost cause.
Quote:No, he is using it to defend his original stance in this situation. That is the only reason. Common sense is being lost in all of this on some.
In a situation where your life is threatened is muuuch different then the OP's story in this thread. Let's think a little here folks.
Do you understand what the word "
never" means?
Quote:Do you understand what the word "never" means?
I do. I also know and have common sense. If my life is in danger it doesn't matter who that other person is, or age for that matter. Use your head.
Truth of the matter is you're ok with Bethel punching this girl, and feel it's ok to do so in general. You started with that then got further and further away from the original storyline to justify your statement.
Quote:Why should someone be punished any more for hitting a woman than a man? Also, she hit him first. If you hit someone first, then don't come back with the "you can't hit a girl" shtick.
After reading your post again, you already knew she hit him first and still condemn the man for defending himself? Battery laws do not state that only males can be charged with battery. Battle (the female) was the aggressor and hit Bethel (the male). Bethel, then, had every right to defend himself regardless of gender.
I really could care less what the law states. If almost any woman hits me, it wont hurt....if I hit them, I could come close to killing them.
He could have restrained her or left the situation. Hitting a woman is never ok.
Quote:Stop avoiding the question. If a man is being beaten to death, should he still follow the gentleman rules of never hitting a woman? If a woman is bigger, stronger, and faster than a man, and that man is unable to flee, why should he forfeit the right to defend himself from injury/death simply because of gender?
You say men should NEVER hit women. Never implies that you think man should accept injury/disfigurement/death in the "extreme" cases I mentioned.
This is the dumbest example you could have come up with. We went from talking about a girl hitting a guy in the heat of the moment on a basketball court to being beaten to death?
You really will come up with anything to make your side of an arguement credible. There are certain posters here that I rarely get into discussions with because they will twist and turn a discussion until it doesn't make sense just to "prove" your side of the story...you are quicly becoming one of those posters.
Quote:Going back and combing through some of your responses, I dont think men should be deprived of defending themselves, but if a woman lands a glancing hit, do you return with a single counter that breaks her jaw?
I understand where you are coming from, but if a woman hits you (as was the way in the video) and you land a severe blow, its been determined that you were pre-mediated to seriously inflict bodily harm when unnecessary.
I 100% agree with your way of thinking. I think we are on the same page, and it even gives a little bit of credit to his point. If a woman is seriously harming you, defend yourself. I would consider those situations extremely rare.
Lets take my wife for instance....we get in an arguement and she starts hitting me. I can easily hold her down, leave the situation until the situation calms down. If she starts hitting me and I hit her back, she isnt getting up and could possible die.
I would rather walk away and defuse the situation.
Quote:Do you understand what the word "never" means?
You were ok with how Bethel reacted in this situation, no? You got defensive on standing up for him so you went to the extreme to prove your case.
You had people back away from their "never" comment....people here were thinking day to day possible fights.
Quote:He's referring to Studs, hardcore Lesbians.
Not really, you see it in all aspects of life from differing standards for military fitness to the whining about "equal pay for equal work" when the truth is that women don't work the same as men. If women want to be treated like men then they should expect to be treated like men. Throw a punch? You deserve what you get. Why don't you people want women to have equal responsibilities for their equal rights? Very paternalistic of you. The truth is that women DON'T want equality with men, they want all the privilege with none of the responsibility. This girl was playing ball with the boys, tried to be one by throwing a punch but shouldn't have to deal with the repercussions of doing so? Balderdash.
Quote:Going back and combing through some of your responses, I dont think men should be deprived of defending themselves, but if a woman lands a glancing hit, do you return with a single counter that breaks her jaw?
I understand where you are coming from, but if a woman hits you (as was the way in the video) and you land a severe blow, its been determined that you were pre-mediated to seriously inflict bodily harm when unnecessary.
Ol' JFC and I haven't seen eye to eye on a lot, but here we agree.
Quote:You were ok with how Bethel reacted in this situation, no? You got defensive on standing up for him so you went to the extreme to prove your case.
You had people back away from their "never" comment....people here were thinking day to day possible fights.
He can't see that though. That's the crux of the matter. He's trying to go to extremes to prove his point that hitting a woman is ok.
Quote:Negative. If that was the case, the Grand Jury would not have dismissed the charges. The Grand Jury decided that the male returning the severe blow had every right to do so.
I do not condone people resorting to any violence if it can be avoided. If a male swings at me and I can avoid the situation without swing back, I'll do so. If a female swings at me and I can avoid the situation, I'll do so. However, I am not as ignorant as others on this board and realize several things:
-There are hundreds of thousands of females capable of causing serious injury to a male.
-There are many cases of females severe injury and even death, by hand, to a male.
-Up until the middle/late stages of adolescence, boys are girls have similar size and strength, yet young boys are constantly taught "you never hit a girl".
Have I ever hit a female? No. Do I plan on it? No. But I still can't buy in to blanket statements like "A man should NEVER hit a woman." As others have stated on here, if a woman hits a man first, that man has every right to defend himself.
And I disagree with their ruling, which could set a bad precedence. If its on video that a woman swings on a man, he has every right to swing back and break her jaw while under the pretense of self defense. Really?
In the video, Bethel had a opportunity to walk away and he didnt. Lets call it for what it is, he got off because the woman initiated the fight which basically sent the message that enables him to disregard lack of control.
Im struggling to understand your response right here. It seems logical with you even stating you would never hit a female, and even avoid situations where you would avoid confrontation if able to do so. But yet with Bethel's situation you fail to apply that reasoning to his. Im confused maybe you are trying to present both sides, I dont know. Reading some of your responses to others in this thread seem to illustrate otherwise.
I just avoid people who think it's ok to hit me or any other person. I've never had to worry about it.
On second thought, I did drop a guy outside a bar a few years back, but he definitely had it coming.
Quote:I 100% agree with your way of thinking. I think we are on the same page, and it even gives a little bit of credit to his point. If a woman is seriously harming you, defend yourself. I would consider those situations extremely rare.
Lets take my wife for instance....we get in an arguement and she starts hitting me. I can easily hold her down, leave the situation until the situation calms down. If she starts hitting me and I hit her back, she isnt getting up and could possible die.
I would rather walk away and defuse the situation.
And this is if she is attacking you, simply holding her down and walking away is the best result to diffuse the situation.
There is no good out of striking back.
Quote:Not really, you see it in all aspects of life from differing standards for military fitness to the whining about "equal pay for equal work" when the truth is that women don't work the same as men. If women want to be treated like men then they should expect to be treated like men. Throw a punch? You deserve what you get. Why don't you people want women to have equal responsibilities for their equal rights? Very paternalistic of you. The truth is that women DON'T want equality with men, they want all the privilege with none of the responsibility. This girl was playing ball with the boys, tried to be one by throwing a punch but shouldn't have to deal with the repercussions of doing so? Balderdash.
So did Bethel suffer any injuries from her hit?
I would be careful if I was you with this response. It is coming off as sexist and or male chauvinism.
Quote:Ol' JFC and I haven't seen eye to eye on a lot, but here we agree.
Exactly
Quote:So did Bethel suffer any injuries from her hit?
I would be careful if I was you with this response. It is coming off as sexist and or male chauvinism.
Exactly
Bull, ya'll are the chauvinists who think women should be treated differently. You think it's not ok for him to retaliate to her battery simply because she's a girl. That's as sexist as it gets.
Quote:Bull, ya'll are the chauvinists who think women should be treated differently. You think it's not ok for him to retaliate to her battery simply because she's a girl. That's as sexist as it gets.
It's not ok for him to retaliate if he had an opportunity to walk away which he did.
I guess you would feel the same way if someone decked your mother/sister/wife and broke her jaw under the same circumstances right?
Quote:It's not ok for him to retaliate if he had an opportunity to walk away which he did.
I guess you would feel the same way if someone decked your mother/sister/wife and broke her jaw under the same circumstances right?
Here's the deal. The issue is that she shouldn't have punched him and he shouldn't have punched her back. He shouldn't have broken ANYONE'S jaw. But its completely sexist to say that its extra special bad and evil because he did it to a girl.
Quote:Bull, ya'll are the chauvinists who think women should be treated differently. You think it's not ok for him to retaliate to her battery simply because she's a girl. That's as sexist as it gets.
I worry about getting involved in this, but I feel like this is a point that no one has brought up yet.
Isn't it also unrealistic to disregard that an adult male can do significantly more damage with a punch than an adult female? Punches, while being generated with the feet and hips, also involve the upper body muscle groups and it has been proven that an average adult male has more and denser upper body muscles than the average adult female. While the intent may or may not be the same, it stands to reason that a man can inflict more damage on a woman with a punch than vice versa.
Quote:I worry about getting involved in this, but I feel like this is a point that no one has brought up yet.
Isn't it also unrealistic to disregard that an adult male can do significantly more damage with a punch than an adult female? Punches, while being generated with the feet and hips, also involve the upper body muscle groups and it has been proven that an average adult male has more and denser upper body muscles than the average adult female. While the intent may or may not be the same, it stands to reason that a man can inflict more damage on a woman with a punch than vice versa.
Like I said, women can't reasonably expect to act like a man and not get treated like one. To treat them differently is sexist by it's very definition.
Quote:Here's the deal. The issue is that she shouldn't have punched him and he shouldn't have punched her back. He shouldn't have broken ANYONE'S jaw. But its completely sexist to say that its extra special bad and evil because he did it to a girl.
Thats the whole point of this discussion, noone should have resorted to violence, but Bethel knew the strength and damage his punch could hand done when he hit her because of his size advantage.
Quote:This is the dumbest example you could have come up with. We went from talking about a girl hitting a guy in the heat of the moment on a basketball court to being beaten to death?
You really will come up with anything to make your side of an arguement credible. There are certain posters here that I rarely get into discussions with because they will twist and turn a discussion until it doesn't make sense just to "prove" your side of the story...you are quicly becoming one of those posters.
You don't get it. I am trying to see if you guys can at least come down a little bit from your "NEVER" comments. When I started the conversation, I figured that people in here had the common sense to realize there are times and places where hitting a man or woman is justifiable. TravC finally conceded that, but you are sticking to your "NEVER hit a woman" shtick.
I posted a link of a male being cornered and beaten to death by 4 women for insulting them. Do you think he was smart for not defending himself?