Quote:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Senor Fantastico" data-cid="904145" data-time="1480575572">
I don't see Julius Thomas, Jared Odrick, Dan Skuta, or Davon House being brought back.
I hope we invest in offensive line early in the draft and run a more traditional 4-3 on defense with Abry Jones as the starting NT.
</blockquote>
You know, I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure a more traditional 4-3 would not have a nose tackle at all.
Quote:So if we were to switch to a 3-4, you would envision Jones as a 3-4 DE?
That would seem to make sense to me. But you are right in that we'd have a glut of 3-4 DEs and no true NT, IMO.
Jackson, Odrick, Jones, Marks (probably gone), Alualu (probably gone) all fit at 3-4 DE. Of that group, Jones would be the best candidate to be a NT. I'm still not sold on Miller being a true 3-4 NT.
At this point given the above, it would be tough for me to decide who would start at a 3-4 DE between a healthy Odrick and Jones.
Presumably, Jackson would start at the other DE spot.
Bit off topic, but this is why I hope the team goes out and gets Dontari Poe. KC probably won't let him touch FA though. As for Jones, he has been very solid absolutely. Great to see.
To be honest, I haven't seen an Achilles injury that hasn't eventually forced a player into retirement. I see Roy having 1-2 more injury plagued years before he eventually calls it quits anyway.
Quote:You know, I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure a more traditional 4-3 would not have a nose tackle at all.
Most every Defense has some combination of a "1 Technique" and a "3 Technique". At least, in my experience.
Quote:You know, I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure a more traditional 4-3 would not have a nose tackle at all.
You could be. Because you are. But it's OK. Now you get to learn something.
Traditional 4-3 lineup has a NT and DT next to each other. The 3 tech and 1 tech positions. Each one actually having different responsibilities.
What you suggest would be having 2 3 tech DTs inside... which is usually some form of pass rush package. (we had it with Marks and Jackson inside, also ran it with Ryan Davis as an inside rush tech with Marks)
You almost always want a NT for "running" downs.
but all that tech talk is about WHERE the lineman lines up...
Quote:I see what y'all did there. I am laughing.
Also, would someone please educate me as to what the difference is for a Nose Tackle between playing in a 30 front as opposed to a 40?
All difference I can think of is that a nose usually plays directly in front of the center in a 3-4 where as in a 4-3 they are usually somewhere in between the guard and center.
Quote:Bit off topic, but this is why I hope the team goes out and gets Dontari Poe. KC probably won't let him touch FA though. As for Jones, he has been very solid absolutely. Great to see.
If we switch to a 3-4, I would be all for going all out to sign him.
I doubt he would ever become available.
But Jones has been a pleasant surprise, and one of the few developmental credits to the coaching staff.
Before the tv analysts and the interwebs got cute using "technique" talk that coaches use, in plain talk people would describe them as run stoppers and pass rushers.
'member John Henderson and Marcus Stroud?
One held the point, the other was more of a pass rusher.
It's the same thing using today's buzzwords. Nothing's changed regarding responsibility or role of the players. We just make ourselves feel like coaches and scouts using words like "technique" when describing them.
Quote:If we switch to a 3-4, I would be all for going all out to sign him.
I doubt he would ever become available.
But Jones has been a pleasant surprise, and one of the few developmental credits to the coaching staff.
Totally. There's been a lot thrown at Jones and he's handled it well. Hard to play a full season when you're more or less the only man on the depth chart. His endurance has been pretty remarkable.
Quote:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Senor Fantastico" data-cid="904145" data-time="1480575572">
I don't see Julius Thomas, Jared Odrick, Dan Skuta, or Davon House being brought back.
I hope we invest in offensive line early in the draft and run a more traditional 4-3 on defense with Abry Jones as the starting NT.
</blockquote>
I think we would be wise to try and keep julius but who knows.
Quote:You could be. Because you are. But it's OK. Now you get to learn something.
Traditional 4-3 lineup has a NT and DT next to each other. The 3 tech and 1 tech positions. Each one actually having different responsibilities.
What you suggest would be having 2 3 tech DTs inside... which is usually some form of pass rush package. (we had it with Marks and Jackson inside, also ran it with Ryan Davis as an inside rush tech with Marks)
You almost always want a NT for "running" downs.
but all that tech talk is about WHERE the lineman lines up...
He isnt necessarily wrong and you arent necessarily right or vice versa. It just isnt as black and white as we would like to make it.
Sometimes players get a designation as a defensive tackle, some get the nose tackle label, but like you were saying it really is all about gap responsibility.
Generally though, in a "nose tackle" you are looking for a space eater, that is playing either the 0 or 1 gaps, and can hold his ground.
In the modern NFL though, you have players that arent the normal physical prototype NT's playing the positions. Teams are putting faster guys in there to apply pressure and then they send a linebacker to fill the spot.
It is pretty complicated but in the grand scheme of things Nose tackles jobs are to hold the point, take up space, and allow the pass rushers room to work on passing downs, on running downs theyre generally supposed to just be a wall haha.
Quote:He isnt necessarily wrong and you arent necessarily right or vice versa. It just isnt as black and white as we would like to make it.
Sometimes players get a designation as a defensive tackle, some get the nose tackle label, but like you were saying it really is all about gap responsibility.
Generally though, in a "nose tackle" you are looking for a space eater, that is playing either the 0 or 1 gaps, and can hold his ground.
In the modern NFL though, you have players that arent the normal physical prototype NT's playing the positions. Teams are putting faster guys in there to apply pressure and then they send a linebacker to fill the spot.
It is pretty complicated but in the grand scheme of things Nose tackles jobs are to hold the point, take up space, and allow the pass rushers room to work on passing downs, on running downs theyre generally supposed to just be a wall haha.
I don't want to split hairs here... but technically he was wrong lol
He said a
traditional 4-3 does not have a NT
If we're talking traditionally and not "new age NFL" then yeah... 4-3 has a NT. Like Big John, Miller, etc.
But as pirk pointed out... the position is the Nose Tackle and Defensive tackle...
the position in which they line up (0 gap, 1 gap, etc) is based according to scheme and defensive play.
In theory, you could have a NT line up in the 5 tech spot. (Between OT and TE)
Probably wouldn't be a good idea... but in theory you could lol
Hell I suppose we could line a QB up at the 3T if we wanted.... wouldn't make him a DT would it?
Quote:Before the tv analysts and the interwebs got cute using "technique" talk that coaches use, in plain talk people would describe them as run stoppers and pass rushers.
'member John Henderson and Marcus Stroud?
One held the point, the other was more of a pass rusher.
It's the same thing using today's buzzwords. Nothing's changed regarding responsibility or role of the players. We just make ourselves feel like coaches and scouts using words like "technique" when describing them.
Its just a more exact way to describe the position a dline guy plays.
Quote:I see what y'all did there. I am laughing.
Also, would someone please educate me as to what the difference is for a Nose Tackle between playing in a 30 front as opposed to a 40?
30 NT lines up over Center and controls both A gaps.
40 NT shades over a Guard and shoots the A gap.
Quote:You know, I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure a more traditional 4-3 would not have a nose tackle at all.
1 technique, if that's suits you better.
Quote:I don't want to split hairs here... but technically he was wrong lol
He said a traditional 4-3 does not have a NT
If we're talking traditionally and not "new age NFL" then yeah... 4-3 has a NT. Like Big John, Miller, etc.
But as pirk pointed out... the position is the Nose Tackle and Defensive tackle...
the position in which they line up (0 gap, 1 gap, etc) is based according to scheme and defensive play.
In theory, you could have a NT line up in the 5 tech spot. (Between OT and TE)
Probably wouldn't be a good idea... but in theory you could lol
Hell I suppose we could line a QB up at the 3T if we wanted.... wouldn't make him a DT would it?
I mean for that play lets say blake lines up at 3T, at that point in my mind he is playing DT, not QB.
In the grand scheme of things though, the NFL is not so clear cut as it once was with positions. SS and FS are more examples of that.
Quote:30 NT lines up over Center and controls both A gaps.
40 NT shades over a Guard and shoots the A gap.
I get that, in theory anyway, but when's the last time you saw a guy lined up head to head in an nfl game that wasn't a goal line situation?
I guess I just don't see the difference as being all that big between a 30 and 40 the more I learn about it.
Quote:I get that, in theory anyway, but when's the last time you saw a guy lined up head to head in an nfl game that wasn't a goal line situation?
I guess I just don't see the difference as being all that big between a 30 and 40 the more I learn about it.
Poe usually lines up directly in front of the center. Or maybe there's just so much of him that it looks like that.