Not sure how many of you are familiar with him, but KC Joyner is a "metrics" guy and was just on the radio with Mike Gill on 97.3 radio in Jersey, and was giving his opinion on a few players/ potential draftees, and heres some of the tidbits:
He said that Clowney despite all the physical tools, did not really grade out all that well in one on one pass rushing metrics. Something about they give the pass rusher 3 seconds and see if he's beaten his 1 on one matchup or something....and apparently Clowney graded out below average. He was saying that could be a concern if you expect this player to be the "stud" that the hype has suggested.
He said that Derek Carr graded out as the QB that had the worst completion pct in situations "under duress" of any of the higher ranked QB prospects. He even went so far as to mention the "G" word....(Gabbert)....saying that Gabbert in college also exhibited similar warning signs, (that were obviously ignored), but in any event, what he said about Carr pretty much echoed what many of his doubters have been saying.
He tabbed Kyle Fuller and Justin Gilbert as grading out as amongst 2 of the best CB in the last decade of CB prospects. Claiming they are both strong in coverage AND ball hawk ability.
He said that Johnny Football would be best going to a team that uses him in a manner like Seattle used Russell Wilson. Mentioned the Texans as a good fit for him, even though he doesn't think O Brien will take him.
On Bridgewater - He has no idea why the "perception" has fallen so much with him. He said on tape, and the metrics, Bridgewater has everything you want from a QB and he believes in 10 years (if Bridgewater does fall), that we['ll all be looking back going "what in the world were we thingking" as far as NFL GM's who passed.
On Wakins - Very high on Watkins, but also high on as many as EIGHT WR in this draft. He said the 8th best WR prospect in this draft could be typically taken no less than mid first round of a more typical average NFL draft, thats how talented this group is. That tells me that it would be a waste to take a guy like Watkins at 3 if you're Jax.
Rated Mack as the best pass rusher of the draft, and said that Barr has the length and athleticism some teams will look for, but he doesn't have a lot of the other things like pass rush repitiore moves, and technique.
I wonder if Tony is privy to those kind of stats?
Quote:Not sure how many of you are familiar with him, but KC Joyner is a "metrics" guy and was just on the radio with Mike Gill on 97.3 radio in Jersey, and was giving his opinion on a few players/ potential draftees, and heres some of the tidbits:
He said that Clowney despite all the physical tools, did not really grade out all that well in one on one pass rushing metrics. Something about they give the pass rusher 3 seconds and see if he's beaten his 1 on one matchup or something....and apparently Clowney graded out below average. He was saying that could be a concern if you expect this player to be the "stud" that the hype has suggested.
He said that Derek Carr graded out as the QB that had the worst completion pct in situations "under duress" of any of the higher ranked QB prospects. He even went so far as to mention the "G" word....(Gabbert)....saying that Gabbert in college also exhibited similar warning signs, (that were obviously ignored), but in any event, what he said about Carr pretty much echoed what many of his doubters have been saying.
He tabbed Kyle Fuller and Justin Gilbert as grading out as amongst 2 of the best CB in the last decade of CB prospects. Claiming they are both strong in coverage AND ball hawk ability.
He said that Johnny Football would be best going to a team that uses him in a manner like Seattle used Russell Wilson. Mentioned the Texans as a good fit for him, even though he doesn't think O Brien will take him.
On Bridgewater - He has no idea why the "perception" has fallen so much with him. He said on tape, and the metrics, Bridgewater has everything you want from a QB and he believes in 10 years (if Bridgewater does fall), that we['ll all be looking back going "what in the world were we thingking" as far as NFL GM's who passed.
On Wakins - Very high on Watkins, but also high on as many as EIGHT WR in this draft. He said the 8th best WR prospect in this draft could be typically taken no less than mid first round of a more typical average NFL draft, thats how talented this group is. That tells me that it would be a waste to take a guy like Watkins at 3 if you're Jax.
Rated Mack as the best pass rusher of the draft, and said that Barr has the length and athleticism some teams will look for, but he doesn't have a lot of the other things like pass rush repitiore moves, and technique.
I saw this on ESPN a couple of weeks ago, in one on one pass rush situations, he struggled quite a bit. Interesting stuff.
I openly admit to earlier being on the Clowney bandwagon...however my opinion has changed. I get the feeling he may be good but never live up to the hype (how could he? and isn't the best pass rusher or best fit for Houston. Khalil Mack would be the better pick for them IMO and I hope they pass on him.
Agree on Fuller/Gilbert and I wish we were picking further back. I'd love to have either of them here.
Also agree on Carr...wouldn't draft him.
I agree with your perception on Watkins and the Jaguars. I saw a graphic on twitter that mentioned something close to 50% of his targets were behind the LOS. Mike Evans had a large number of targets that were 16+ yards down field. I'd rather have a guy like that than a guy that makes his living catching behind the LOS in regards to pick 3.
A lot of what he said I completely agree with him
"On Wakins - Very high on Watkins, but also high on as many as EIGHT WR in this draft. He said the 8th best WR prospect in this draft could be typically taken no less than mid first round of a more typical average NFL draft, thats how talented this group is. That tells me that it would be a waste to take a guy like Watkins at 3 if you're Jax. "
Your wrong, 8 WR's might go in the 1st round, so passing on Watkins is doing the Jags no good, your still gonna miss out on the other top WRs, why not get the best one?
You cant just not pick a top WR just because the other players are good when you wont even get those guys, its the same thing with the QBs, if we sit tight at 39, all the top QB's might be gone and we might be stuck with the left overs.
So, basically, the guy you are quoting and created a thread about loves Watkins and Mack, two guys you hope we don't draft?
Quote:A lot of what he said I completely agree with him
"On Wakins - Very high on Watkins, but also high on as many as EIGHT WR in this draft. He said the 8th best WR prospect in this draft could be typically taken no less than mid first round of a more typical average NFL draft, thats how talented this group is. That tells me that it would be a waste to take a guy like Watkins at 3 if you're Jax. "
Your wrong, 8 WR's might go in the 1st round, so passing on Watkins is doing the Jags no good, your still gonna miss out on the other top WRs, why not get the best one?
You cant just not pick a top WR just because the other players are good when you wont even get those guys, its the same thing with the QBs, if we sit tight at 39, all the top QB's might be gone and we might be stuck with the left overs.
He didn't say 8 of these WR would go in THIS first round....he said it was so deep that some will fall to the 2nd or even an outside chance at round 3.
He said that the top 8 WR group as a whole are so good that in a normal draft any one of them could be selected in the first round. i.e. they all have a first round grade per his metrics.
Quote:So, basically, the guy you are quoting and created a thread about loves Watkins and Mack, two guys you hope we don't draft?
2 guys who I hope we wouldn't take AT THREE overall.
I never said I would be against taking either after a trade down.
ive been saying this for months. clowney is a tremendous athlete, maybe unparalleled, but he is not the best football player. im sure there is room to grow and improve but again, drafting on potential is a fickle beast.
Quote:2 guys who I hope we wouldn't take AT THREE overall.
I never said I would be against taking either after a trade down.
Neither will be there after a trade down. Mack has got to be the pick if we stay put.
Based on his comments, nobody is a good value at 3?
Quote:Neither will be there after a trade down. Mack has got to be the pick if we stay put.
This is exactly it, you can be fine if we take them in a trade down all you want but there is no way lol. Browns will take Watkins if he's there if they don't go QB. Mack is one of the few elite talents in this draft as well, Oakland/Falcons (if they are there) would definitely take him.
I'm ready for the Mack-Attack-N-Jax!
Quote:Based on his comments, nobody is a good value at 3?
He (Joyner) actually said something I have been saying the past few days - he said if you feel a QB is a franchise guy, you take him in the first round and its still good value. Its the one position of that ilk.
ESPN just reiterated Gus Bradley takes later round defensive guys and turns them into studs. Thinking about that tends to make me think they may go offense with #3.
Quote:He (Joyner) actually said something I have been saying the past few days - he said if you feel a QB is a franchise guy, you take him in the first round and its still good value. Its the one position of that ilk.
I'm so intrigued by this draft, and the QBs. The "experts" are all over the place, should be very good entertainment this evening. That being said, if you're sold on a QB, you take him. Too valuable of a position.
Quote:I'm so intrigued by this draft, and the QBs. The "experts" are all over the place, should be very good entertainment this evening. That being said, if you're sold on a QB, you take him. Too valuable of a position.
Caldwell has to get some credit here too.
Initially I was concerned about his "transparency", but he's done a good job leading up to tonight in making it seem like almost every top prospect is a legit possibility for us.
Quote:I'm so intrigued by this draft, and the QBs. The "experts" are all over the place, should be very good entertainment this evening. That being said, if you're sold on a QB, you take him. Too valuable of a position.
My thoughts exactly. There is so much disagreement among these experts that it really leaves the door completely wide open as to how things will play out. It's not like in years past where you can pretty much figure out right away who the top pick in the draft is, and predict the first few selections. The speculation is all over the place.
Should be a fun evening.
I, too, have significantly cooled on Clowney. He looks like a bigger, faster, stronger Branch who possesses no pass rush skills.
Quote:My thoughts exactly. There is so much disagreement among these experts that it really leaves the door completely wide open as to how things will play out. It's not like in years past where you can pretty much figure out right away who the top pick in the draft is, and predict the first few selections. The speculation is all over the place.
Should be a fun evening.
Exactly! CANT FREAKIN WAIT!!!