Cann isn't a RG. He isn't a mauler. He may be an ok LG, but for the life of me, I don't see why the staff thinks of him as such.
Quote:Yeah the Matt Stafford snub was ridiculous. But you can't deny T.J. Lang would be a noticeable upgrade at RG if if he wanted to be a Jaguar.
I agree T.J. Lang would be a noticeable upgrade. Yet, it gets back to how far the Jaguars should go to secure his services. Even though the Jaguars are currently in excellent shape salary cap wise, that can change quickly if they overpay multiple players.
Quote:You answered the question. Omameh and Reed were fine at LG. Reed was even a pretty good run blocker. Having a Pro Bowler there would not make all that much difference. The OL problem is with Cann and Parnell. I'd put LG way down the list of positions that need to be addressed.
So why did he only play in two games this year?
Truthfully I did not see a difference in run blocking no matter who our LG was. Plug anybody in at the position and our RBs went backward. A Pro Bowler could fix that.
Quote:I agree T.J. Lang would be a noticeable upgrade. Yet, it gets back to how far the Jaguars should go to secure his services. Even though the Jaguars are currently in excellent shape salary cap wise, that can change quickly if they overpay multiple players.
If we can trade down for extra draft picks that would save us a lot of money.
I mean if we get Feeney and Warford i would move Feeney. In 3,300 snaps at RG and 4 games at RT in college he has allowed 2 sacks, thats pretty ridiculous! If he can play RT i bet he can play LG, he hasnt in college but im sure he could. Feeney,Linder and Warford in the middle is like a dream for me
Quote:I mean if we get Feeney and Warford i would move Feeney. In 3,300 snaps at RG and 4 games at RT in college he has allowed 2 sacks, thats pretty ridiculous! If he can play RT i bet he can play LG, he hasnt in college but im sure he could. Feeney,Linder and Warford in the middle is like a dream for me
I only want a LG who has been playing the position for years, not a converted RG. Moving the LT and using swing backups was a failure this year in the run department.
Quote:Cann isn't a RG. He isn't a mauler. He may be an ok LG, but for the life of me, I don't see why the staff thinks of him as such.
Maybe he can't pull/move very well in space? Who knows.
In most offenses there isn't much difference between the two, only your tendency to pull/trap to one side over the other. If you're a balanced team or don't do much pulling/trapping at all, there's not much difference.
For a talented player, LG is pretty interchangeable with RG. All three interior positions are interchangeable (aside from actually being able to snap the football - it's a skill that not everyone has, my life at C lasted only one snap when I almost broke my QBs finger.)
I'd love to get someone like Elflein or Pocic in the draft. We could install them at OG and we'd also have a built in backup at Center as well, since those guys are familiar with playing both positions. Maybe even install them at Center and move Linder back to OG. Either setup would work. In any case, finding reliable backups is important as well, since O-Linemen tend to get dinged up. We are painfully thin at O-Line depth.
Quote:Maybe he can't pull/move very well in space? Who knows.
In most offenses there isn't much difference between the two, only your tendency to pull/trap to one side over the other. If you're a balanced team or don't do much pulling/trapping at all, there's not much difference.
For a talented player, LG is pretty interchangeable with RG. All three interior positions are interchangeable (aside from actually being able to snap the football - it's a skill that not everyone has, my life at C lasted only one snap when I almost broke my QBs finger.)
Its not just about your skill set. Its about who you are lined up against. The RG is more often lined up on nose tackles and big ends. There is no skillset difference between LT and RT either, but LTs are lined up on the premier rushers and usually need a better kick step and quicker feet.
Quote:Its not just about your skill set. Its about who you are lined up against. The RG is more often lined up on nose tackles and big ends. There is no skillset difference between LT and RT either, but LTs are lined up on the premier rushers and usually need a better kick step and quicker feet.
Who you're lined up against only changes your role. 3-4, 4-3, etc. Double teams, chips, man-ons, etc. With today's defenses you'll see premier pass rushers from both sides as they either scheme it that way or filp handedness.
I get what you're saying but at the NFL level if you can't play both you're probably a fringe player to begin with. If you're worth an NFL roster spot, you should be able to play either, even though you may be better suited for one or the other. You shouldn't drop off a cliff moving from one to the other. You should be able to transition into that role without much trouble if you're asked to.
Allow me to clarify as well... swapping sides on a whim is not what I'm referring to. For continuity, stability, communication, and understanding roles they are typically slotted as one or the other (unless you're a backup player) and not moved once dedicated to a particular side.
To go back to the previous example, I'm not sure Cann would be more effective at either side. It's possible we're seeing his best at the position he's suited best. Or, it could be he was left at RG because Joeckel had unanimously taken LG and it was his only place to compete. Either way, I'm not encouraged by what I see. As with Linder, when you have that guy - it shows.
Quote:Who you're lined up against only changes your role. 3-4, 4-3, etc. Double teams, chips, man-ons, etc. With today's defenses you'll see premier pass rushers from both sides as they either scheme it that way or filp handedness.
I get what you're saying but at the NFL level if you can't play both you're probably a fringe player to begin with. If you're worth an NFL roster spot, you should be able to play either, even though you may be better suited for one or the other. You shouldn't drop off a cliff moving from one to the other. You should be able to transition into that role without much trouble if you're asked to.
Allow me to clarify as well... swapping sides on a whim is not what I'm referring to. For continuity, stability, communication, and understanding roles they are typically slotted as one or the other (unless you're a backup player) and not moved once dedicated to a particular side.
To go back to the previous example, I'm not sure Cann would be more effective at either side. It's possible we're seeing his best at the position he's suited best. Or, it could be he was left at RG because Joeckel had unanimously taken LG and it was his only place to compete. Either way, I'm not encouraged by what I see. As with Linder, when you have that guy - it shows.
Cann has been a below average RG. He played his entire career in college at LG. He has been pushed around at RG in the NFL so I believe it is fair to believe he would be a better LG than RG. Not good, but better than he is now. To me, its obviously his more natural position.
He stepped in at RG last year because of an injury. This year they left him there because they obviously wanted Joeckel in the lineup at LG. Hopefully the new coaches play players where they are best at and not try to keep piece mealing this line together.
We don't have a single stout offensive lineman on this roster. The closest is Linder, and in my opinion, even he is a more natural left guard.
I just don't see how playing LG or RG is much of a difference. Both guards will pull at times. Otherwise, you block people?
Quote:I just don't see how playing LG or RG is much of a difference. Both guards will pull at times. Otherwise, you block people?
One blocks 290 pound defensive ends and 320 pound tackles while the other blocks 265 pound defensive ends and 295 pound tackles.
Quote:One blocks 290 pound defensive ends and 320 pound tackles while the other blocks 265 pound defensive ends and 295 pound tackles.
With leverage that doesn't matter much, unless you're taller and have trouble with pad level.
Quote:With leverage that doesn't matter much, unless you're taller and have trouble with pad level.
Twenty five pounds absolutely matters. There are players that can play either position, there are players who can only play LG, and there are those who can only play RG. The only strartable player we have at RG is Linder, and even he isn't stout enough to get consistent push against nose tackles and big ends.
Quote:Twenty five pounds absolutely matters. There are players that can play either position, there are players who can only play LG, and there are those who can only play RG. The only strartable player we have at RG is Linder, and even he isn't stout enough to get consistent push against nose tackles and big ends.
Not with proper technique, it doesn't.
Again, if you've got marginal talent to begin with - yes, you can and will struggle regardless of side, even if one is more "natural" to you.
But if you're a talented player, you're talking about the difference between A and A-, B and B+ switching sides.
A Manuwai or Meester wouldn't have any trouble at all playing RG. It's just that they were much better than any option at LG and C. Same with Linder at C. I doubt we'd find a C as good as Linder, but he could go back to LG if so.
Speaking from experience.
Quote:Not with proper technique, it doesn't.
Again, if you've got marginal talent to begin with - yes, you can and will struggle regardless of side, even if one is more "natural" to you.
But if you're a talented player, you're talking about the difference between A and A-, B and B+ switching sides.
A Manuwai or Meester wouldn't have any trouble at all playing RG. It's just that they were much better than any option at LG and C. Same with Linder at C. I doubt we'd find a C as good as Linder, but he could go back to LG if so.
Speaking from experience.
Technique only takes you so far. There are plenty of 270 pound offensive linemen with amazing technique that can't make an NFL roster. Thats why there are weight classes in combat sports. Most lightweight boxers, wrestlers, and mma fighters have better technique than the heavy weights. They didn't make the weight classes to protect the heavy weights from lightweights.
Manuwai absolutely could have handled either guard position. He was a mauler. Meester would have struggled at right guard, especially later in his career. Its why he played LG and then was moved back to center, his more natural position. He was too small to play LG, let alone RG.
Quote:Technique only takes you so far. There are plenty of 270 pound offensive linemen with amazing technique that can't make an NFL roster. Thats why there are weight classes in combat sports. Most lightweight boxers, wrestlers, and mma fighters have better technique than the heavy weights. They didn't make the weight classes to protect the heavy weights from lightweights.
Manuwai absolutely could have handled either guard position. He was a mauler. Meester would have struggled at right guard, especially later in his career. Its why he played LG and then was moved back to center, his more natural position. He was too small to play LG, let alone RG.
John Wade is what put Meester at LG. We should have re-signed him if the cap would have allowed and Meester would have stayed at LG.
I'm not going to argue anymore about it. A strawman about a guy who isn't big enough for the NFL has nothing to do with the discussion. If you're a good NFL interior lineman you'll be able to make the transition. If not, then you're marginal and are hanging by a thread at your current position to begin with, or are extremely good with a limited skillset.