Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Rashean WAS a ballhawk.

 

Not for long, but in his prime, he definitely was.

Unlike those HOFers I mentioned with more career INTs that the Attention Dog is conveniently ignoring?

Quote:Seems like he was drafted to just be a decent starter, someone you can plug in and expect to do a decent job.  

 

A selection based on need last year.

 

Gus said that Gratz was the only CB left when they picked last year that had a starting grade, so they took him.  You first need to field a decent team.

 

I think guys like McCray were those that were selected on high potential that could also bust realistically.  They really seem to like McCray so we'll see if he develops into anything.

 

 

What you speak of (playmaking DB) is what I see in LaMarcus Joyner.  I want him.  

 

I'd prefer Buchanon. 

 

Joyner is a midget. 

Quote:I'd prefer Pierre Desir. 

 

in terms of value (for instance, Desir in the 5th vs. Joyner in the 3rd) or flatout you think think Desir is going to be better?

 

I think Joyner would be awesome value in the 2nd. 

Quote:in terms of value (for instance, Desir in the 5th vs. Joyner in the 3rd) or flatout you think think Desir is going to be better?

 

I think Joyner would be awesome value in the 2nd. 

 

I thought you were talking CB at first, I edited to include a Safety instead. 

 

Joyner is 5' 8". No thanks. 

Quote:I thought you were talking CB at first, I edited to include a Safety instead. 

 

Joyner is 5' 8". No thanks. 

 

Him being 5'8" is the only reason he will drop out of the 1st round.  If he drops into the 3rd, I don't care how short he is - you get him.

 

His change of direction is elite, he hits like a truck, blitzes well, is always around the ball... 

 

Tyrann Mathieu without the off-field concerns.

Quote:I thought you were talking CB at first, I edited to include a Safety instead. 

 

Joyner is 5' 8". No thanks.

Hey....remember that time you said Rashean Mathis was more of a ball hawk than Ronnie Lott and Deion Sanders...?


Hilarious.

Quote:Him being 5'8" is the only reason he will drop out of the 1st round.  If he drops into the 3rd, I don't care how short he is - you get him.

 

His change of direction is elite, he hits like a truck, blitzes well, is always around the ball... 

 

Sounds like Bob Sanders.....which means, we'll have him for what 2 seasons before the NFL beating takes its toll on that tiny frame and he declines uber early like Sanders....

Quote:Hey....remember that time you said Rashean Mathis was more of a ball hawk than Ronnie Lott and Deion Sanders...?


Hilarious.

 

from 2004-2007, he was more of a ball hawk than even those guys. As good a "cover" corner? No. 

 

But, keep thinking you're right....

Quote:Sounds like Bob Sanders.....which means, we'll have him for what 2 seasons before the NFL beating takes its toll on that tiny frame and he declines uber early like Sanders....

 

Sounds like?  I'm not judging or anything, I really just want to know.  How many times have you seen Joyner play?

 

It just appears you saw he's listed at 5'8" and instantly thought "nope!"...

 

Sanders was a bigger hitter than Joyner.  Joyner is the better ballhawk.  Joyner is the better playmaker IMO.

 

IIRC he led FSU in Sacks this year.

Quote:from 2004-2007, he was more of a ball hawk than even those guys. As good a "cover" corner? No.


But, keep thinking you're right....

I am right. I have proven I am right. And you keep dancing and squirming and conveniently changing the parameters of your argument.


Classic Attention Dog.


God you're embarrassing.

Quote:Sounds like?  I'm not judging or anything, I really just want to know.  How many times have you seen Joyner play?

 

It just appears you saw he's listed at 5'8" and instantly thought "nope!"...

 

Sanders was a bigger hitter than Joyner.  Joyner is the better ballhawk.  Joyner is the better playmaker IMO.

 

I don't see a 5"8" DB being a playmaking ball hawk in the National Football League in 2014, sorry. He wasn't even that big of a ball hawk in college. 

Quote:God you're embarrassing.

 

LOL you like Gratz and think the current Jags DB corps is good enough....

 

Thats more embarrassing. 

Quote:I don't see a 5"8" DB being a playmaking ball hawk in the National Football League in 2014, sorry. He wasn't even that big of a ball hawk in college. 

 

we may have different opinions on what a ball hawk is.

 

doesn't matter, NBD.

Quote:we may have different opinions on what a ball hawk is.

 

doesn't matter, NBD.

 

My definition includes the EXECUTION of being a ball hawk, i.e. actually coming down with lots of INT. 

 

Joyner once had 4 INT in a season, but the other 3 totals were 1, 1, & 2. Thats not a ball hawk from the Safety position. Think Earl Thomas, think Rod Woodson from the Safety position, think Brian Dawkins, think even Jairus Byrd...

 

I don't see a 5' 8" Safety without a prior history of big time INT production evolving into a big time INT getting free safety, in the current era of the NFL. 

Quote:LOL you like Gratz and think the current Jags DB corps is good enough....

 

Thats more embarrassing.

Show me where I said that, Tiny Dancer

Quote:Show me where I said that, Tiny Dancer

 

Its implied by your defense of Gratz and then comparing his college stats to all time all stars college stats. Thats what you do. 

Quote:Its implied by your defense of Gratz and then comparing his college stats to all time all stars college stats. Thats what you do.

I disputed your argument that he will never be a ball hawk. I'm not saying he will, but I sure a hell know that you DON'T know either.


You compared his college stats to those of alltime great ball hawk (LOL) Rashean Mathis' college stats.


I then countered by presenting current and future HOFers college numbers with Gratz, to which the compare with favorably.


Embarrassing, Tiny Dancer. Sooooooo Embarrassing.


Just put your tail between your legs and scurry home. Things aren't getting any better for you here.

Quote:I disputed your argument that he will never be a ball hawk. I'm not saying he will, but I sure a hell know that you DON'T know either.


You compared his college stats to those of alltime great ball hawk (LOL) Rashean Mathis' college stats.


I then countered by presenting current and future HOFers college numbers with Gratz, to which the compare with favorably.


Embarrassing, Tiny Dancer. Sooooooo Embarrassing.


Just put your tail between your legs and scurry home. Things aren't getting any better for you here.

 

Gratz was never a ball hawk in college. The only facts you can illustrate this on a text forum is with his statistical production. i.e. facts. 

 

Gratz wasn't even the best CB on his own team. I have a good idea what Gratz career will evole to just as anyone else who combine the player he was in college with what we've seen. He'll be a decent ham & egger. He'll never, thats right NEVER be a ball hawk type of CB. 

 

I cited Rashean first because he was a familiar player that people would remember as a point of reference. He also happened to be a great ball hawk in his prime. He was this in college as well. STILL holds the NCAA record for INT in a season with 14. You can laugh and pretend that in his prime Rashean wasn't one of the best in terms of being a ball hawk, all you wish. 

 

Including HOF level CB into this argument is stupid. Rashean was never as good a cover CB as those and Lord know Gratz will never be them or anything remotely close either. 

 

You are the one that did the typical bait and switch with the argument because sticking to the principals you had no leg to stand on. The Jags have zero ball hawks in the secondary and will need at least one before this defense ascends to the next level. Thats my original point and I was totally correct in that and you can't stand it. 

TMD if you're so good at evaluating players so quickly...why don't you work for a NFL team?

I 100% agree with you on all counts here. TMD is clearly just pushing an anti jaguars pick agenda again. Pretty sad. With that being said, there has been absolutely no indication so far that gratz couldn't be a long time starter in this league and again, I hope the jaguars draft Baptiste to develop and put along side gratz for a couple of big strong, man corners.

Quote:I disputed your argument that he will never be a ball hawk. I'm not saying he will, but I sure a hell know that you DON'T know either.


You compared his college stats to those of alltime great ball hawk (LOL) Rashean Mathis' college stats.


I then countered by presenting current and future HOFers college numbers with Gratz, to which the compare with favorably.


Embarrassing, Tiny Dancer. Sooooooo Embarrassing.


Just put your tail between your legs and scurry home. Things aren't getting any better for you here.