Quote:Yes, that IS getting value out of UDFAs.
I'd say "value" is also getting a stop-gap starter, like Russell Allen. If we had another 3-4 Russell Allen types that were our backups/sometimes starters at non-premium positions, we would have a better team than we do.
But what's your point? We haven't hit on those guys in recent years sooo?? We shouldn't sign any? We shouldn't try? We shouldn't hope one of them turns out to be that good? Exactly what is your point? It seems like you get butthurt any time a person says something with a hopeful undertone.
I actually like LaRoy Reynolds quite a bit from last year's crop. He has very good speed and is a big hitter. Hopefully he can turn into a better player than Russell Allen became.
My point is the top notch FO's find those diamonds in the rough. They get those "exceptions" to the rule. If Caldwell's FO is as good as some think, its time we get -A- Romo, Foster, Jason Peters, or Victor Cruz outta UDFA.
Quote:Those guys stick out precisely because they are so rare.
Theres probably more, I only mentioned the first (now 4) to come into my head.... above
Quote:Austin paztor and Cameron Bradfield were both UDFA's and they are both decent OTs.
Yeah, they are okay.....but I'd bet every single team finds UDFA's of THAT caliber. We need to do better than that.
Did the guys you mentioned become immediate pro bowl players? No.
How long has Caldwell been doing this? 1 year.
How many people have claimed our FO to be "top notch" or "elite"? I can't think of a single person that has.
We want someone that is COMPETENT. It's only been one year, so it's too early to judge. I personally have liked more things Caldwell has done than the # of things I've disliked. (I would have kept Daryl Smith, but that's about it).
I've always said.... what turns a franchise around is finding a pro bowler in the lower rounds or UDFAs... Sometimes you just have to strike lucky. Hopefully we find someone like that soon.
That's all we can do.. hope. If we don't, it doesn't mean our GM sucks. A lot of good GMs never find pro bowlers from the UDFA list.
This time of the year sucks on the Jaguars message board. The natives get restless and instead of focusing on football they focus on attacking each other. Happens every off season here.
Quote:This time of the year sucks on the Jaguars message board. The natives get restless and instead of focusing on football they focus on attacking each other. Happens every off season here.
It will be worse this year.....Combine is late Feb, then March 11 begins FA and that will last about a week (for the main players anyway)...then theres a BIG gap until the draft....May this year....
SHould have left the draft in April, but once again, Goodell messes something else up that didn't need to be altered.
Quote:
SHould have left the draft in April, but once again, Goodell messes something else up that didn't need to be altered.
Agree. Also, what hasn't been pointed out a lot - I wonder if there will be more holdouts this year. If you push back the draft, there may be a possibility of more players not being signed on time. IMO it's stupid. Do the draft as soon as you can after free agency. The more time the player spends with the team, the better.
Quote:Have we actually hit on one of them in recent years?? I know they are usually popular around here, but not sure if we ever got a really good impact player out of any of them. Didn't Houston get Arian Foster that way? ANd the Cowboys Tony Romo. Giants - Victor Cruz.....I'd say THATS getting value out of UDFA's.
Not of the caliber you list above. But on the team right now:
A. Pasztor
M. Brown
R. Davis
C. Bradfield
R. Allen
Have contributed, and a few others look promising.
Quote:My point is the top notch FO's find those diamonds in the rough. They get those "exceptions" to the rule. If Caldwell's FO is as good as some think, its time we get -A- Romo, Foster, Jason Peters, or Victor Cruz outta UDFA.
Theres probably more, I only mentioned the first (now 4) to come into my head.... above
Yeah, they are okay.....but I'd bet every single team finds UDFA's of THAT caliber. We need to do better than that.
Name just one top notch FO that finds THOSE diamonds in the rough then. Just one FO that has done it multiple times.
Quote:Name just one top notch FO that finds THOSE diamonds in the rough then. Just one FO that has done it multiple times.
I'm not sure there has been one that found multiple of that level in UDFA, but the FO of those teams personnel wise other than Buffalo, has been pretty good. Even Dallas who hasn't had great records have had pretty good rosters. Theres a connect between long standing quality personnel choices and finding those 4 standouts. I'll add Harrison to Pittsburgh. thats 5.
I also wonder how many people who are jumping on praise of Bradley now, in this thread or otherwise, weren't formerly staunch "players, not plays" guys....
Would suggest either hypocrisy, a flip flop, or at best, finally seeing the light that good coaching is just as important as good players.
Quote:I'm not sure there has been one that found multiple of that level in UDFA, but the FO of those teams personnel wise other than Buffalo, has been pretty good. Even Dallas who hasn't had great records have had pretty good rosters. Theres a connect between long standing quality personnel choices and finding those 4 standouts. I'll add Harrison to Pittsburgh. thats 5.
That's not what you said. You said:
Quote:My point is the top notch FO's find those diamonds in the rough. They get those "exceptions" to the rule. If Caldwell's FO is as good as some think, its time we get -A- Romo, Foster, Jason Peters, or Victor Cruz outta UDFA.
Theres probably more, I only mentioned the first (now 4) to come into my head.... above
Yeah, they are okay.....but I'd bet every single team finds UDFA's of THAT caliber. We need to do better than that.
So who are they? Who are these teams with the front offices that prove that Jacksonville's front office is so inept. You laid the framework with your own words. Can't you back it up with one single example?
Quote:That's not what you said. You said:
So who are they? Who are these teams with the front offices that prove that Jacksonville's front office is so inept. You laid the framework with your own words. Can't you back it up with one single example?
I wouldn't label the Caldwell FO as inept at this point. and I am not. My words have not labeled Caldwell's FO as inept....that would be YOUR WORDS, you are trying to put in my mouth.
Whether it is or not will play out in time. At least 3 years is needed to make a fair judgment. I'm just illustrating the kind of UDFA that I'd like to see brought in here. Anything less than that level is nothing to be praised. Most FO get the level of the Pasztor level FA's.
I haven't found an example of multiple UDFA's of the (Harrison/ Peters/ Cruz/ Romo/ Foster) level from one FO yet, but looking.
GULP ON THAT GUS JUICE SON!
Quote:It will be worse this year.....Combine is late Feb, then March 11 begins FA and that will last about a week (for the main players anyway)...then theres a BIG gap until the draft....May this year....
SHould have left the draft in April, but once again, Goodell messes something else up that didn't need to be altered.
I wish they had the draft the old way, rounds 1, 2 and 3 on Saturday, and the rest of it on Sunday. It made for a great weekend.
Quote:
I haven't found an example of multiple UDFA's of the (Harrison/ Peters/ Cruz/ Romo/ Foster) level from one FO yet, but looking.
lol why are you still looking at that? Fact is, it's rare to find a pro bowl caliber player as a UDFA. If it happens, great - awesome!
Should we expect it to happen? Absolutely not.
Quote:lol why are you still looking at that? Fact is, it's rare to find a pro bowl caliber player as a UDFA. If it happens, great - awesome!
Should we expect it to happen? Absolutely not.
But then he'll have to invent something else that Caldwell is doing wrong.
Oh well I guess we're stuck with these horrible "Pasztor level" UDFA's. LOL. Because having a capable starting RT for league minimum salary is just so horrible.
Quote:I wish they had the draft the old way, rounds 1, 2 and 3 on Saturday, and the rest of it on Sunday. It made for a great weekend.
Disagree... I like the new format more. I'd rather have it in primetime (I've got too much going on outdoors on Saturdays) for the meat of the draft. Makes for better watercooler conversation, too. Drawing it out heightens the talk and speculation, too.
Quote:Disagree... I like the new format more. I'd rather have it in primetime (I've got too much going on outdoors on Saturdays) for the meat of the draft. Makes for better watercooler conversation, too. Drawing it out heightens the talk and speculation, too.
Quote:I wish they had the draft the old way, rounds 1, 2 and 3 on Saturday, and the rest of it on Sunday. It made for a great weekend.
While I personally liked the old format as well, I do see some positives to the new format. I like the day break after the first round. It gives teams a whole lot of time to work trades and such.
Quote:While I personally liked the old format as well, I do see some positives to the new format. I like the day break after the first round. It gives teams a whole lot of time to work trades and such.
Agreed in principle/ theory.
What happened to Gus Bradley and Senior Bowl practices?
Hmm...
Quote:While I personally liked the old format as well, I do see some positives to the new format. I like the day break after the first round. It gives teams a whole lot of time to work trades and such.
Draft day parties are not as fun anymore. First round by itself is boring.