Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:It'd really be nice if you guys quit talking about us drafting Bridgewater. He sucks, get over it.

It'd be nice if you would get a clue about anything football related...you suck...we're over it.

Quote:It'd really be nice if you guys quit talking about us drafting Bridgewater. He sucks, get over it.

 

If you are tired of the Bridgewater talk, and you saw it in the thread title, why click on it?

 

Do you have some bizarre form of Tourette's that forces you to click uncontrollably onto threads in which you have zero interest?

Quote:Again. My point is Geno's draft stock was all over the place. At this point in time Teddy's draft stock is fixed in the top 5.

 

Find me a single mock draft between January and April that had Geno Smith being picked at #39 or lower. Heck find me a single mock draft that had Geno Smith being picked in the 2nd round (the sources you posted were not mock drafts). The truth is, if somebody that was considered a 1st round pick by just about everyone can drop to #39, then a person considered a top 5 pick by everyone can drop to #6. Is this your first year following the draft? People considered top 5 picks in December often drop to 6 or lower. Often times, it has nothing to do with that person's stock dropping but rather a different player's stock rising.

Quote:You are on record as wishing loss on the jags, and therefore you are no fan. That's nobody's fault but your own.

 

While I understand your point-of-view, I disagree with you. Bullseye has proven to be one of the more informed posters here. I've disagreed with him on more than one occasion, but it's hard to justify saying he isn't a fan. Not to say your justification is invalid, I just don't think it applies to him. 

Quote:While I understand your point-of-view, I disagree with you. Bullseye has proven to be one of the more informed posters here. I've disagreed with him on more than one occasion, but it's hard to justify saying he isn't a fan. Not to say your justification is invalid, I just don't think it applies to him. 

Now you, on the other hand, are a poster who I have a ton of respect for, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

In my eyes, he's tainted goods, just as all of those alleged fans are who wanted this team to do badly. They bought a one way ticket out of Jaguar fanhood in my eyes. It's pretty cut and dried. He, just like many others, were not fans the very second they decided they wanted this team to lose. There's no way to sugar coat that fact. It's like trying to say someone is a good spouse because they only beat their respective spouse on rare occasion. Or cheat on that spouse, but rarely. Or it's like saying they're a good employee because they only embezzle money around the holiday season. It's an invalid argument. Once you cross certain lines, there's no coming back.

Quote: 

It's like trying to say someone is a good spouse because they only beat their respective spouse on rare occasion. Or cheat on that spouse, but rarely. Or it's like saying they're a good employee because they only embezzle money around the holiday season. It's an invalid argument. Once you cross certain lines, there's no coming back.

 

No.....no, its actually nothing like that. 

 

Wanting the team to get the top QB in the draft and hence have a decades worth of success probably containing superbowl appearances/ wins is nothing like the comparison you provided. 

Quote:No.....no, its actually nothing like that. 

 

Wanting the team to get the top QB in the draft and hence have a decades worth of success probably containing superbowl appearances/ wins is nothing like the comparison you provided. 

Still waiting for Cam, Bradford, Stafford, JaMarcus, Alex Smith, Carson and Vick to lead their team to decades of success and possibly some Superbowls

Quote:No.....no, its actually nothing like that. 

 

Wanting the team to get the top QB in the draft and hence have a decades worth of success probably containing superbowl appearances/ wins is nothing like the comparison you provided. 

Actually, it is exactly like the comparison. Once you betray something you say you have allegiance to, your loyalty becomes instantly worthless.

 

No excuse changes that, ever. Sorry man.

Quote:Now you, on the other hand, are a poster who I have a ton of respect for, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

In my eyes, he's tainted goods, just as all of those alleged fans are who wanted this team to do badly. They bought a one way ticket out of Jaguar fanhood in my eyes. It's pretty cut and dried. He, just like many others, were not fans the very second they decided they wanted this team to lose. There's no way to sugar coat that fact. It's like trying to say someone is a good spouse because they only beat their respective spouse on rare occasion. Or cheat on that spouse, but rarely. Or it's like saying they're a good employee because they only embezzle money around the holiday season. It's an invalid argument. Once you cross certain lines, there's no coming back.

 

Fair enough.

 

Personally, I can't stand the idea of wanting to lose. I think, with a good GM, we can find good players anywhere. I understand the logic they use, however, and I disagree with it. 

Quote:Fair enough.

 

Personally, I can't stand the idea of wanting to lose. I think, with a good GM, we can find good players anywhere. I understand the logic they use, however, and I disagree with it. 

That's the whole point. How can you be a fan, and loyal to a team, yet want them to lose, ever?

 

That's the simple difference. I still want them to win on draft day. I just want them to win on gameday too. I have a very consistent stance on this. I don't need to rationalize it because it's sensible.

 

No rationalization changes the simplicity of wanting to win versus wanting to lose. Why take a simple concept and try to cloud it up? It's not worth it. Win, and win every time. Gameday, draft day, during free agency. Just win baby, like good ol' Al used to say.

Quote:That's the whole point. How can you be a fan, and loyal to a team, yet want them to lose, ever?

 

That's the simple difference. I still want them to win on draft day. I just want them to win on gameday too. I have a very consistent stance on this. I don't need to rationalize it because it's sensible.

 

No rationalization changes the simplicity of wanting to win versus wanting to lose. Why take a simple concept and try to cloud it up? It's not worth it. Win, and win every time. Gameday, draft day, during free agency. Just win baby, like good ol' Al used to say.

 

You don't think there are any circumstances that benefit a team/organization more if it loses a game?

 

Think back to the Patriots vs. Dolphins game in week 17 of the 2005/2006 NFL season. I've never seen a more obvious dive in my life. If they Patriots win, they host the 6-seed Pittsburgh Steelers. If they lose, they host the 5-seed Jacksonville Jaguars.The Steelers were on a four-game win streak and ended up going on to win the Super Bowl. The Jaguars lost to the Patriots 28-3.

 

Losing that game to Miami in week 17 benefited the Patriots and Belicheck knew it going in. Let me guess, Belicheck is a lousy Patriot's fan and disloyal to the organization. :no:

Thank you JagNGeorgia.  You are one of the ones I respect on this board.  Again, while there are may instances where we disagree on a given issue, I think we share a passion for football generally and the Jaguars specifically despite those disagreements, and it is evident in your posts.

 

Sorry I am not using the quote feature, but for some reason, it doesn't work properly on my home PC.

 

Dakota,

 

So because abstract thought on this matter is beyond you, I'm less of a fan?

 

By your own admission, a guy you respect disagrees with your assessment of my fanhood.

 

You drew some parallels to describe my stance.

 

I choose a different one.

 

Assume you are a man of modest means.  You like movies or whatever, and there are movies coming out you'd really like to see.  However, you love this woman, and you want to buy her an engagement ring worthy of her.  It would hurt and disappoint you to miss these movies (or insert whatever pleasurable activity that costs money), but choosing to eschew these activities and missing whatever short term pleasure you would derive from them and saving your money will enable you to more quickly assemble the money needed to get that ring for that woman.

 

Missing out on those activities would cause you short term pain/inconvenience/be less fun, but would get you closer to years of longer term happiness by getting you closer to the ring and be far outweighed by the long term benefits of that marriage. 

 

Applying this analogy to the current situation shouldn't be that difficult to grasp.

 

The movies/activities represent the "meaningless wins" at the tail end of a lost season.

 

The ring represents the franchise QB.

 

The marriage represents the success that comes from getting that franchise signal caller.

 

If short term pain results in longer term happiness, I think I might choose that path. 

 

Anyone who has stayed at home and studied to graduate from High school/college/grad school instead of going to that party can understand that rationale.

 

Anyone who has busted their butt in the gym instead of eating that pizza and drinking that beer would understand that (not that I have direct knowledge of this...  :teehee

 

There is a world of difference between wanting a team to lose because you despise them (Houston, Tennessee, Pittsburgh, Washington, Philadelphia), and wanting your team to lose because you want them to have improved access to draft talent that will eventually reduce the amount of losing in the future.

 

In closing..consider the following...

 

Are there teams you hate?  Could you root for a team you hate to win if it means the Jaguars would benefit by a playoff berth or division championship?

Exactly, Hailtoyourvictor.

FWIW, I think the draft is way too un-predicatable to "tank". I'd rather see the Jaguars win and take their chances with the #5/6 overall pick than lose and take their chances on the #2 overall pick. Also, I like building a team of competitors with a winning mentality.

 

However, I understand the reasoning behind it, and don't think it makes anybody less of a fan.

Quote:Actually, it is exactly like the comparison. Once you betray something you say you have allegiance to, your loyalty becomes instantly worthless.

 

No excuse changes that, ever. Sorry man.

 

And the wife beaters always have an excuse (I assure you we'll be successful for the next ten years!)

Quote:Actually, it is exactly like the comparison. Once you betray something you say you have allegiance to, your loyalty becomes instantly worthless.

 

No excuse changes that, ever. Sorry man.

 

No, these comparisons don't make sense and I really hope that you realize this. Regardless of what you think about rooting for losses, beating your wife is done with the explicit intent of punishing another human being. Cheering for tanking is one way for some fans to hope for Super Bowls in the future. It's about the betterment of the team. Surely you can see the difference.