Quote:Not from anyone who knew what was going on. With Blaine Gabbert as your QB the ceiling is 3-13. Next year we will have Teddy and a serviceable cast around him. I bet we have a winning record.
It wouldn't surprise me, Bridgewater gets through his progressions well and finds the open man, which is the most important thing a qb can do.
With guys like Blackmon, shorts iii, ace sanders who can get open and get yards after catch, the jags will surprise many teams and many fans next year
Sorry it took a while to get back to this.
Quote:How would they even be able to pull that off??They'd probably get better (too good to get the #1 draft spot) merely by the additions from the upcoming offseason.
Fairly easy to do. Draft players at positions that don't offer immediate improvement in the W-L record (developmental guys, OGs, DTs), and/or trade lower picks in 2014 for higher picks in 2015. Again sign no difference makers as free agents. Keep the same mediocre coaching staff. Just keeping the same QBs (or replacing them with equally poor discards) would probably go a long way toward getting us the #1 pick in 2015.
Quote:So we are assuming that Winston is outstanding, and better than Teddy. OK. But how good is Teddy, since we're making assumptions?
If Winston is a hypothetical guarantee and Teddy is a hypothetical Wild Card, then there's really little debate.
The scenario is flawed.
So, my answer depends on how we're projecting Teddy to play. However, I'm pretty sure I'd be happy with Cam Newton heading into this season.
The assumption is that Teddy is good, but not great. Call him an average of Carson Palmer, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Alex Smith, and Cam Newton to use recent non-bust #1 overall picks as examples. The question is premised on there being two 'sure thing' QBs in the last 30 years (Elway and Luck), and the assumption that Winston is in that category and is known to want to enter the NFL in 2015.
Elway next year or McMahon now? Luck next year or Newton now? I think it's a difficult decision, especially if you factor in the rapid development of QBs these days.
Quote:The OP assumes that the Jaguars are trying to lose and will continue to lose in order to gain a better draft spot when I would argue that the Jaguars
simply suck.
I'm not saying that the players or coaches are actively trying to lose. But Caldwell has created a roster that 'simply sucks'. He could do it again next year while still adding good players in the draft (see my reply to TMD).
When you say "Newton now, or Luck next year" (assuming that you are right, of course. Maybe it's Luck this year, or Luck next year. Or maybe it's Luck this year, or Newton Next year) you also have to take into consideration: Peyton neck injury.
Maybe next year Tom Brady suffers a career ending injury. Patriots without their WR's go 0-16. They get the 1st pick. Or maybe Drew Brees gets injured and the Saint's go winless. Maybe we even face a potential 0-16 team, and go 1-15.
Panthers pass on Newton, and then fail to get Luck and they're not in very good shape.
Quote:When you say "Newton now, or Luck next year" (assuming that you are right, of course. Maybe it's Luck this year, or Luck next year. Or maybe it's Luck this year, or Newton Next year) you also have to take into consideration: Peyton neck injury.
Maybe next year Tom Brady suffers a career ending injury. Patriots without their WR's go 0-16. They get the 1st pick. Or maybe Drew Brees gets injured and the Saint's go winless. Maybe we even face a potential 0-16 team, and go 1-15.
Panthers pass on Newton, and then fail to get Luck and they're not in very good shape.
It's always a guess, but the premise here is that Winston is a 'sure thing' franchise prospect like Elway or Luck, while Bridgewater is a consensus #1 pick but not a 'sure thing.' Peyton Manning was in that category, so there's always that chance. But so was Bradford.
There's alway a risk that the Jags don't play bad enough in 2014 to get the 2015 pick. However, they ARE being compared to the '76 Bucs who did suck enough in '77 to get the #1 pick in '78 (which they traded). If the Jags wanted to, they could build another 0-16 team for 2014.
Even as bad as Jax is this year, there is a possibility the Jaguars won't have the 1st pick and you are planning on taking the 1st pick next year ?
Solid plan.
I honestly agree with that comparison, talent wise. Jameis winstons physical gifts are off the charts but what puts teddy on the level of sure fire prospects is what's between his ears. His physical tools are above adequate but its all about the poise, decision making, and ability to read a defense and no one, including jameis, is on teddys level with that.
Quote:It is when you consider that the QB expected to go first in this years draft is being compared favorably to the talent level of QB like that and Luck.
I'll take a horrible record this season, if the benefits are the success that those level QB bring for the next decade
Quote:It's always a guess, but the premise here is that Winston is a 'sure thing' franchise prospect like Elway or Luck, while Bridgewater is a consensus #1 pick but not a 'sure thing.' Peyton Manning was in that category, so there's always that chance. But so was Bradford.
There's alway a risk that the Jags don't play bad enough in 2014 to get the 2015 pick. However, they ARE being compared to the '76 Bucs who did suck enough in '77 to get the #1 pick in '78 (which they traded). If the Jags wanted to, they could build another 0-16 team for 2014.
Even going on the assumption that the 2015 1st overall pick of the draft has more long term value than the 2014 1st overall pick of the draft, the question that would come to mind for me is how much more can the Jaguars fan base take of losing week after week?
While some franchises might be able to absorb 3 straight seasons of 2 wins or less each season, the Jaguars are one of the newest franchises to enter the NFL and are a small market team. The Jaguars have many terrific fans such as yourself and countless other people that participate on this MB. But the overall numbers in terms of the fan base aren't close to what most other franchises have. At some point in that not too distant future, many more wins need to come.
Nope .
Jameis is good and this is coming from a FSU fan but theres a much better chance of bridgewater coming out this year and being good then all of this happening :
1. Somehow ending up with the #1 overall pick again
2. Winston not getting hurt / regressing and remaining the consensus #1 pick without another QB coming from no where challenging for the spot (see luck / RG3)
3. Another team not being as bad and looking at the current implosion of the dolphins,texans, bucs, giants,steelers and possibly pats if brady goes down we will likely have stiff competition for the #1 next year.
Barring injury Bridgewater is the clear cut #1 Qb and the #1 overall prospect in the draft right now and thats highly unlikely to change in the next few months whereas Winston has much longer for something to go wrong and we would have to align ourselves with at least a #3 pick or higher pick 2 years in a row which i dont even know if thats ever happened.
This franchise will not survive if we have another 2 win (or less) season.
Next year we need at least 5-6 wins, and we need to be competitive in pretty much every game. Significant improvement needs to be made.
Quote:It wouldn't surprise me, Bridgewater gets through his progressions well and finds the open man, which is the most important thing a qb can do.
With guys like Blackmon, shorts iii, ace sanders who can get open and get yards after catch, the jags will surprise many teams and many fans next year
Ace sucks. The Jags 2nd through 4th round picks pretty much yielded poor value, just like I said at the time....
But, we're already seeing Mike Brown show lots of YAC yards, and I have a pretty good feeling on this Stephen Burton kid....
Lmao, you can't be serious. Jaguars pass on TB and get the #1 pick in 2015. Jameis Winston decides to..........not declare. Then what?
Quote:Sorry it took a while to get back to this.
Fairly easy to do. Draft players at positions that don't offer immediate improvement in the W-L record (developmental guys, OGs, DTs), and/or trade lower picks in 2014 for higher picks in 2015. Again sign no difference makers as free agents. Keep the same mediocre coaching staff. Just keeping the same QBs (or replacing them with equally poor discards) would probably go a long way toward getting us the #1 pick in 2015.
The assumption is that Teddy is good, but not great. Call him an average of Carson Palmer, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Alex Smith, and Cam Newton to use recent non-bust #1 overall picks as examples. The question is premised on there being two 'sure thing' QBs in the last 30 years (Elway and Luck), and the assumption that Winston is in that category and is known to want to enter the NFL in 2015.
Elway next year or McMahon now? Luck next year or Newton now? I think it's a difficult decision, especially if you factor in the rapid development of QBs these days.
If Winston was "certain" to be even better than Peyton Manning, I'd do it.....
but theres really no way to be certain on something like that, so the best option is to just take Bridgewater now. If Winston is meant to be in the Jaguars plans, something will happen to Bridgewater and we'll get Winston anyway.
Quote:[BAD WORD REMOVED], you can't be serious. Jaguars pass on TB and get the #1 pick in 2015. Jameis Winston decides to..........not declare. Then what?
Of course that question would need to be answered first. It shouldn't be difficult to find out if he definitely plans to enter the NFL as soon as allowed. Some players want to stay in college, most would rather not risk a career ending injury before their first big paycheck.
And the injury risk is always there if the Jags decide to 'Wait for Winston.'
Quote:How would they even be able to pull that off??They'd probably get better (too good to get the #1 draft spot) merely by the additions from the upcoming offseason.
you trade back this season for more picks. build your other positions up. then next year make the 1st pick team an offer they cant refuse most your picks and some future ones. you asked how to do that is the way
Quote:Ace sucks. The Jags 2nd through 4th round picks pretty much yielded poor value, just like I said at the time....
But, we're already seeing Mike Brown show lots of YAC yards, and I have a pretty good feeling on this Stephen Burton kid....
That's the spirit. Give up on those rookies 8 games into their rookie season.
How are Arthur Brown and Matt Barkley doing again?
Hah, Blank #2.
It's just weird thinking about how long ago that started.
I wish Jags tank for many more years. Winless is Jags' identity.
Quote:Ace sucks.
Matt Barkley sucks.
April 2014.
Caldwell: "Jameis, we know you have another season to play but before we draft we wanted to know if you are going to declare eligible for the 2015 draft?"
Winston: "Uh, you're not suppose to be talking to me."
Caldwell: "Well we are the pitiful Jaguars and we need to know if you'll be available next year or whether we should draft a QB next week in the NFL draft."
Winston: "Uh, I have another season to play college. After that is over I'll talk it over with my parents and coaches then make a decision."
Caldwell: "Gee Jameis, we don't have that long, we have to know NOW! We are the pitiful Jaguars who must make a pick next week in the draft."
Winston: "I have a class to attend. See ya."
Caldwell: "Uh, just in case can you make sure you don't tear an ACL or achilles this upcoming season? We'd hate to pass on a QB to pick you then you get injured in the college season."
I started reading the entire thread but had to stop. I mean really, who among us actually thinks this team is tanking? Tampa is tanking for Teddy, what we have here however is a flat our bad team. No need to tank.