Shack drafted Leftwhich and Reggie Williams back to back. Smith drafts Gabbert and Justin Blackmon back to back.
Both QB's are complete busts and both WR's are druggies who can't stay the #$%^ out of trouble. Shack drafts Barnes and Gene takes Monroe, both end up as overated underachieving tackles.
I have never seen a sports franchise get absolutely bent over this bad by poor regimes and bad luck.
Quote:Shack drafted Leftwhich and Reggie Williams back to back. Smith drafts Gabbert and Justin Blackmon back to back.
Both QB's are complete busts and both WR's are druggies who can't stay the #$%^ out of trouble. Shack drafts Barnes and Gene takes Monroe, both end up as overated underachieving tackles.
I have never seen a sports franchise get absolutely bent over this bad by poor regimes and bad luck.
Leftwich >>> Gabbert.
And as much as I disliked the Reggie Williams pick, he didn't have any issues in college and was clean for his first few years here. I suspect Jimmy Smith may have been a big factor in Reggie's cocaine problem (maybe Mattloaf and Soward too).
Leftwich wasn't a complete bust. When he got injured in 2005 he was playing some really good football
Leftwich had a winning record as a starter for the Jaguars. Gabbert's record is 5-22.
He was playing so good he got cut by 4 teams in a 3 year span.
Shack Harris >>>>> Gene Smith
It's not even close either. They're both awful though. I can't believe "Gene Smith is a genius" and "In Gene I trust" was actually a thing.
Quote:Shack Harris >>>>> Gene Smith
It's not even close either. They're both awful though. I can't believe "Gene Smith is a genius" and "In Gene I trust" was actually a thing.
It sickens me that I even believed in him. He was the best at finding decent players but never drafted a good player besides monroe/blackmon. You don't go anywhere with "decent" players that dont develop into anything
Want another comparison? How about how Gene Smith and Dave Caldwell' era started...
Huge roster overhaul in the first year
LT in the first round
Drafted WR/Return man in the mid rounds (Dillard, Thomas/Sanders, Robinson)
and
Drafted in bulk of what was the biggest need at the time (3 WRs taken in Gene's first draft, 3 CB's taken in Caldwell's first draft)
Philosophy of building from the inside out (offensive/defensive lines)
Were both considered "geniuses" when they first started
Quote:He was playing so good he got cut by 4 teams in a 3 year span.
I doubt Gabbert is in the league for nine years.
Quote:Shack Harris >>>>> Gene Smith
It's not even close either. They're both awful though. I can't believe "Gene Smith is a genius" and "In Gene I trust" was actually a thing.
I blame Vic
Shack>>>>>>>Matt millen>>>>>gene smith
No not really
Monroe underachieving? Yea No
Quote:Want another comparison? How about how Gene Smith and Dave Caldwell' era started...
Huge roster overhaul in the first year
LT in the first round
Drafted WR/Return man in the mid rounds (Dillard, Thomas/Sanders, Robinson)
and
Drafted in bulk of what was the biggest need at the time (3 WRs taken in Gene's first draft, 3 CB's taken in Caldwell's first draft)
Philosophy of building from the inside out (offensive/defensive lines)
Were both considered "geniuses" when they first started
beat me to it
Gene Smith, in 4 years, selected 3 above average starters and 3 borderline starters. Thats it. That may be the worst 4 year draft period in history. Add to the fact our 2008 draft was even worse, and you can see why this team sucks. You cant just not draft any good players for 4 years.
And people wonder why this year is so bad.
Quote:Want another comparison? How about how Gene Smith and Dave Caldwell' era started...
Huge roster overhaul in the first year
LT in the first round
Drafted WR/Return man in the mid rounds (Dillard, Thomas/Sanders, Robinson)
and
Drafted in bulk of what was the biggest need at the time (3 WRs taken in Gene's first draft, 3 CB's taken in Caldwell's first draft)
Philosophy of building from the inside out (offensive/defensive lines)
Were both considered "geniuses" when they first started
Boy, talk about making stuff up to fit your agenda.
Show me all these people who were talking about Smith and Caldwell being geniuses when they first started.
Unlike you and Eric, most of us take the adult view of waiting to see how it turns out, while hoping for the best.
Why do I get the feeling that you and your buddy Eric are hoping for the worst so you can say I told you so?
As far as talent goes(no off-the-field concerns or injury concerns)
I'll take Monroe/Alualu/Gabbert/Blackmon over Leftwich/Williams/Jones/Lewis.
Quote:Want another comparison? How about how Gene Smith and Dave Caldwell' era started...
Huge roster overhaul in the first year
LT in the first round
Drafted WR/Return man in the mid rounds (Dillard, Thomas/Sanders, Robinson)
and
Drafted in bulk of what was the biggest need at the time (3 WRs taken in Gene's first draft, 3 CB's taken in Caldwell's first draft)
Philosophy of building from the inside out (offensive/defensive lines)
Were both considered "geniuses" when they first started
You only scratched the surface.
In 2013, Dave Caldwell
1) got rid of a serviceable LT who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.
2) also replaced the starting RT.
3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left, kept the other two starters.
4) let go of two starting CBs, one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.
5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick.
6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.
7) the other sometimes starting DE was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.
8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick.
In 2009 , Gene Smith
1) got rid of a serviceable LT (Khalif Barnes) who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.
2) also replaced the starting RT (Pashos).
3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left (Mike Peterson), kept the other two starters.
4) let go of two starting CBs (Drayton Florence, Brian Williams), one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.
5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick (albeit by the Lions in 2007).
6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.
7) the other sometimes starting DE (Q. Groves) was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.
8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick (Mike Thomas).
There are some differences of course. Gene replaced both WRs while Dave replaced a third CB and a DT. Gene made less use of street free agency. But the parallel between the actions of the two GMs in their first year is stunning.
Quote:
You only scratched the surface.
In 2013, Dave Caldwell
<div>1) got rid of a serviceable LT who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.
2) also replaced the starting RT.
3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left, kept the other two starters.
4) let go of two starting CBs, one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.
5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick.
6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.
7) the other sometimes starting DE was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.
8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick.
In 2009 , Gene Smith
1) got rid of a serviceable LT (Khalif Barnes) who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.
2) also replaced the starting RT (Pashos).
3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left (Mike Peterson), kept the other two starters.
4) let go of two starting CBs (Drayton Florence, Brian Williams), one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.
5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick (albeit by the Lions in 2007).
6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.
7) the other sometimes starting DE (Q. Groves) was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.
8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick (Mike Thomas).
There are some differences of course. Gene replaced both WRs while Dave replaced a third CB and a DT. Gene made less use of street free agency. But the parallel between the actions of the two GMs in their first year is stunning.
</div>
You also forgot to mention that both Gene, and Caldwell both believe in building through the draft.
Quote:You also forgot to mention that both Gene, and Caldwell both believe in building through the draft.
Presumably true, but my list is what was actually done, not what was said. People can say anything.
Caldwell will be judged in 2 years IMO when we see his QB pick and overall team ascension in the 2015 season. If we aren't knocking on playoff doors, Clean house and try for a 3rd stinkin time in 2016