Quote:I'm sure that wasn't the point of his post, but let's heed the description of this board (Talk about anything except football. Well, almost everything (no politics or religion, please).) so that discussions of other topics may continue and this thread is allowed to either continue or die through lack of interest.
Yes, you are correct. I was a bit out of it last night. My post was uncalled for and pretty ignorant as well. I apologize if any one was offended.
Quote:Lefties.
Ha, I think I see what you did there...
Quote:Diet Mt Dew rocks!!!!! 
You really shouldn't drink diet soda or any diet drinks at all. You are better off just drinking the regular stuff. That other stuff is worse for you.
Quote:<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="WingerDinger" data-cid="34459" data-time="1382366143">
Broccoli
-What? Broccoli is the bee's knee's.
Time clocks
-?
Big Chicks that drive Honda Fits (seen quite a few)
-Heh. Chicks with fits. Almost rhymes.
</blockquote>
Time clock
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://oi39.tinypic.com/jfhp3c.jpg'>http://oi39.tinypic.com/jfhp3c.jpg</a>
Quote:Higher altitudes are colder because of the air pressure. It's the same properties that cause CO<sub>2 </sub>cartridges to become colder as you release the pressurized gas. At 20,000 feet above sea level the air pressure is 6.4 PSI which is less than half of the air pressure at sea level (14.7 PSI).
I was taught that the cylinder becoming colder is due to the Ideal Gas Law behvior since the Volume of the container remains the same, and the temperature is dependent on the pressure drop.
Essentially; since T<sub>2 </sub>= T<sub>1</sub> x (P<sub>2</sub>/P<sub>1</sub>) if we state that T<sub>2</sub> is the final temperature of the gas, then as the pressure drops -- or P<sub>2</sub> gets smaller -- then the value which we multiply T<sub>1</sub> by gets smaller, therefore reducing the value of T<sub>2</sub>, lowering the temperature.
At first, I thought your statement was wrong and that the reason that it's colder at higher altitudes is because of a thinner layer of air insulation. But I was wrong. Since the pressure on the air at higher levels is lower, as you stated, then the air is expanding. Since the air is expanding it is doing work. Work is heat so that means that the air gets cooler as it expands.
Yeah! Science y'all!!!!
Quote:Ha, I think I see what you did there...
You really shouldn't drink diet soda or any diet drinks at all. You are better off just drinking the regular stuff. That other stuff is worse for you.
I don't smoke, rarely drink, I don't drink coffee....I've got to have something bad!!! :thumbsup:
Quote:I was taught that the cylinder becoming colder is due to the Ideal Gas Law behvior since the Volume of the container remains the same, and the temperature is dependent on the pressure drop.
Essentially; since T<sub>2 </sub>= T<sub>1</sub> x (P<sub>2</sub>/P<sub>1</sub>) if we state that T<sub>2</sub> is the final temperature of the gas, then as the pressure drops -- or P<sub>2</sub> gets smaller -- then the value which we multiply T<sub>1</sub> by gets smaller, therefore reducing the value of T<sub>2</sub>, lowering the temperature.
At first, I thought your statement was wrong and that the reason that it's colder at higher altitudes is because of a thinner layer of air insulation. But I was wrong. Since the pressure on the air at higher levels is lower, as you stated, then the air is expanding. Since the air is expanding it is doing work. Work is heat so that means that the air gets cooler as it expands.
Yeah! Science y'all!!!!
My head hurts now...thanks!!! :angry:
Quote:My head hurts now...thanks!!! :angry:
Oh, quit whining. A little thinking is good for you!
Quote:Oh, quit whining. A little thinking is good for you!
Agreed! Besides, that was some pretty simple math in the grand scheme of things.
A personal "math favorite" of mine is the idea of some infinities being larger than other infinities despite both being infinite. Example: the infinity between any two whole numbers is larger than the infinity of whole numbers.
Quote:I was taught that the cylinder becoming colder is due to the Ideal Gas Law behvior since the Volume of the container remains the same, and the temperature is dependent on the pressure drop.
Essentially; since T<sub>2 </sub>= T<sub>1</sub> x (P<sub>2</sub>/P<sub>1</sub>) if we state that T<sub>2</sub> is the final temperature of the gas, then as the pressure drops -- or P<sub>2</sub> gets smaller -- then the value which we multiply T<sub>1</sub> by gets smaller, therefore reducing the value of T<sub>2</sub>, lowering the temperature.
At first, I thought your statement was wrong and that the reason that it's colder at higher altitudes is because of a thinner layer of air insulation. But I was wrong. Since the pressure on the air at higher levels is lower, as you stated, then the air is expanding. Since the air is expanding it is doing work. Work is heat so that means that the air gets cooler as it expands.
Yeah! Science y'all!!!!
I just want to say, as someone who has derailed this thread on more than one instance, good for you for actually trying to keep the discussion on a higher plain (or is it plane? engineers!). I am not in any means mathematical or scientifically gifted. I am product of the liberal arts, but I can always appreciate (and try my hardest to comprehend and participate) in intellectually charged conversations.
So yeah. Go you.
Quote:I was taught that the cylinder becoming colder is due to the Ideal Gas Law behvior since the Volume of the container remains the same, and the temperature is dependent on the pressure drop.
Essentially; since T<sub>2 </sub>= T<sub>1</sub> x (P<sub>2</sub>/P<sub>1</sub>) if we state that T<sub>2</sub> is the final temperature of the gas, then as the pressure drops -- or P<sub>2</sub> gets smaller -- then the value which we multiply T<sub>1</sub> by gets smaller, therefore reducing the value of T<sub>2</sub>, lowering the temperature.
At first, I thought your statement was wrong and that the reason that it's colder at higher altitudes is because of a thinner layer of air insulation. But I was wrong. Since the pressure on the air at higher levels is lower, as you stated, then the air is expanding. Since the air is expanding it is doing work. Work is heat so that means that the air gets cooler as it expands.
Yeah! Science y'all!!!!
Yep! Thanks for the more technical explanation. It's fascinating how what seems like common sense (i.e. get closer to the sun = higher temperatures) can be quite wrong.
Quote:Yep! Thanks for the more technical explanation. It's fascinating how what seems like common sense (i.e. get closer to the sun = higher temperatures) can be quite wrong.
The ideal gas law is nice but it can't really be applied here since it requires no heat or energy exchange with it's surroundings. And there's tons of energy coming from both the sun and what the Earth radiates back into space.
Quote:Yep! Thanks for the more technical explanation. It's fascinating how what seems like common sense (i.e. get closer to the sun = higher temperatures) can be quite wrong.
The equation you are looking for is: PV=nRT.
Everything else being constant, as pressure goes down, so does temperature.
As for explaining it to most people, I just say, when you go high, you get closer to outer space. And space is really, really, cold.
On topic, I can accept the integration of trigonometric functions, but really can't justify in my brain. It was the point in calculus when I realized I would never be a mathematician. I could understand all the laws of math up to that point.
Quote:The ideal gas law is nice but it can't really be applied here since it requires no heat or energy exchange with it's surroundings. And there's tons of energy coming from both the sun and what the Earth radiates back into space.
Fair enough, I don't actively study the sciences and am more of a causal (but interested) observer. It just seemed like the basic principles of the law are applicable to the general idea of less pressure = lower temperatures.
Quote:The equation you are looking for is: PV=nRT.
Everything else being constant, as pressure goes down, so does temperature.
As for explaining it to most people, I just say, when you go high, you get closer to outer space. And space is really, really, cold.
On topic, I can accept the integration of trigonometric functions, but really can't justify in my brain. It was the point in calculus when I realized I would never be a mathematician. I could understand all the laws of math up to that point.
Haha, I suppose that explanation works. A lot of people don't see space as a thing that "stuff" interacts with though.
Quote:The ideal gas law is nice but it can't really be applied here since it requires no heat or energy exchange with it's surroundings. And there's tons of energy coming from both the sun and what the Earth radiates back into space.
Well, it can -- kinda -- since it's also derived from Kinetic Theory of Gases in that each molecule of the gas is a point mass and it incorporates temperature when can be considered as a measure of energy.
Hell, it's all First Law of Thermo anyway.
Quote:Fair enough, I don't actively study the sciences and am more of a causal (but interested) observer. It just seemed like the basic principles of the law are applicable to the general idea of less pressure = lower temperatures.
Haha, I suppose that explanation works. A lot of people don't see space as a thing that "stuff" interacts with though.
Just wait until you find out why your windshield is the first thing to frost over on a cold morning.
Quote:The ideal gas law is nice but it can't really be applied here since it requires no heat or energy exchange with it's surroundings. And there's tons of energy coming from both the sun and what the Earth radiates back into space.
That heat is, for the most part, a constant in the equation, though.
Quote:Just wait until you find out why your windshield is the first thing to frost over on a cold morning.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't want you thinking I'm some newb to science amazed by the simplest of things. I spend a lot of my free time reading up on scientific topics, I just don't formally study it and certainly don't claim to be an expert. Science is kind of like a hobby of mine, and as such I don't want to present myself as some kind of expert in any way because I'm not.
I can intellectually accept tearing down the team to start over, but I have a nagging feeling that it isn't really necessary to be this bad in order to build a championship team.
