Quote:Was Monroe playing well enough to franchise tag?
:no:
Here's an interesting take on Monroe:
http://miketanier.sportsonearthblog.com/...situation/
On topic, I think it's a promising sign that Caldwell and Coach Bradley appear to work well together and actually like each other. Based on the draft, DC appears to understand what GB wants for players and drafted them instead of letting his own ego interfere.
Contrast what you've seen between them and imagine what it must have been like to work with Hollywood Jack Del Rio.
I liked when he didn't take Barkley in the fourth round, but instead traded back a couple spots.. Got Ace Sanders and with that extra 7th round pick we got Demetrius McCray who, IMO, looks like a darn steal for 7th rounder!
I'd hold off on his draft prowess. I honestly don't see anyone in his first draft that is capable of being a star or better than average besides Joeckel. Cyprien will be a decent player once he learns coverage. Gratz, Evans and Mcray will be average at best. Harris, Robinson and Sanders will be busts IMO. All three out of the league in less than 4 years. Whether this draft is bad or good solely depends on Joeckel. If he becomes a top 5 or even top 10 LT, Then its good. Anything less, and its bad.
With that said, All of his others moves besides monroe trade have been absolutely masterful. I was in awe with what he did with Danthony Smith. Announcing his cut list earlier to draw in a trade from someone way low on the waiver wire. Absolutely masterful. I also love his open mind to Tony Khans numba's division. The man will adapt based on any league change and that has me more hopeful than anything.
Quote:Eh he did catch some passes there too and was more known for his sure hands and route running vs his special teams play. We need a Qb as its been shown (especiallly the rams game) that he does gt open at the NFL level.
Yes Denard is a project but are you going to say he wasnt a playmaker during his time at a big name school in Michigan? Texas A@M i would also consider a bigger school in terms of name and player recognition. UConn isnt a complete nobody either and another one of their CBs was drafted as well.
Id say 5 of his picks came from relatively "big" schools Joeckel,Gratz,Sanders,Robinson and Evans vs 3 smaller schools guys Cyprien,Mccray, Harris. Maybe you are seeing less than what is really there.
Odd, the only thing about Ace Sanders that stood out to me in college was that he had several return TDs. We heard repeatedly that he didn't drop a pass in college, but he dropped several of his first attempts in the NFL. I hope the QB play improves and he improves with it.
Joekel could be a great player someday, but he isn't what comes to mind when you think speed or playmaker.
UConn is a second tier program, not small but not what you think of when you think "BCS" school.
Robinson, so far, looks like he'll take substantial time to develop into even a decent running back. That isn't unusual for project players, but I don't really remember the last one of those that worked out. Brad Smith maybe? Speedy playmaker sure. But if he can't earn his way onto the field it's useless.
So I'd give it 4 big, 4 not big. Again, I'm not complaining and I really like how well this class has done so far considering the circumstances. But the template also looks just like a Gene Smith draft, hopefully these guys turn out better and we get a QB and a pass rush next offseason.
Quote:The truth of it is, As bad as Gene Smith was, He knows more about scouting talent and can judge talent alot better then you. If you could you would be working for a NFL team. The worst scout in the leauge is probably better at scouting talent then you.
This is true. GM Gene had bad luck but scout Gene did a pretty good job. He scouted Darius, Freddy T,, Henderson, Stroud, Brackens, Hardy, Manuwai, and all the other great former players.
Regards..................the Chiefjag
The most important attribute of any leader of any organization whether it be in sports or the corporate world is foresight, making decisions that are conducive to long term continuous success rather than short term gains, no matter how much pressure there is to do the opposite. This was evident when David Caldwell didn't draft a QB this past April despite the pressure from both the media and fans. DC is clearly targeting a QB in the 2014 NFL Draft, and that has obviously been the plan from the start of his tenure, he made the right decision by not wasting an important resource (draft pick) on a guy that didn't meet that vision in the 2013 NFL draft.
This was also evident in the Eugene Monroe trade, the Jaguars weren't going to extend on franchise tag Eugene at seasons end, and so getting back multiple resources (draft picks) for a player who isn't a part of the future was the absolute right move, no matter what fans are the media think. David Caldwell was hired to build a long term sustainable winning organization, and all of the moves that have been made so far suggest the plan hasn't changed, despite the pressure from the fans and he media to do the opposite.
Quote:The most important attribute of any leader of any organization whether it be in sports or the corporate world is foresight, making decisions that are conducive to long term continuous success rather than short term gains, no matter how much pressure there is to do the opposite. This was evident when David Caldwell didn't draft a QB this past April despite the pressure from both the media and fans. DC is clearly targeting a QB in the 2014 NFL Draft, and that has obviously been the plan from the start of his tenure, he made the right decision by not wasting an important resource (draft pick) on a guy that didn't meet that vision in the 2013 NFL draft.
This was also evident in the Eugene Monroe trade, the Jaguars weren't going to extend on franchise tag Eugene at seasons end, and so getting back multiple resources (draft picks) for a player who isn't a part of the future was the absolute right move, no matter what fans are the media think. David Caldwell was hired to build a long term sustainable winning organization, and all of the moves that have been made so far suggest the plan hasn't changed, despite the pressure from the fans and he media to do the opposite.
An example of the above is some America's largest investment banks loading their pockets during the mortage boom; captilazing off consolidated debt obiligations and credit default swaps while severly damaging their long term financial stability (Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs etc..)
Quote:Here's an interesting take on Monroe:
http://miketanier.sportsonearthblog.com/...situation/
Interesting read but he admittedly is only going off of this season. The Jags have a whole new scheme in place, that apparently all of the linemen/ RB are getting used to.
Monroe should have been dealt on draft day before he had a chance to show regression in a new system.
Situation = botched.
So far I like the fact that he's got a high turnover rate with this roster, he seems to keep making moves here on a weekly basis. Which he promised he was going to do. And had it not been for injuries to Gratz (Who looked promising during the pre-season) and Joeckle's recent trip to IR, his first class hasn't been too bad I guess. I'd like to see more Robinson but he's probably on a very hard learning curve at this point. I am glad he decided to trade Monroe now when he knew deep down he wasn't going to re-sign the guy. And, it's possible with us having the 1st and 2nd overall selections in each round next year that he finds our future franchise signal caller and adds more depth and talent to this roster. I just hope we don't go 0 - 16.
Quote:So I'd give it 4 big, 4 not big. Again, I'm not complaining and I really like how well this class has done so far considering the circumstances. But the template also looks just like a Gene Smith draft, hopefully these guys turn out better and we get a QB and a pass rush next offseason.
I think the big difference between the two was that Gene Smith wanted to build a floor of 'Mediocre'. His first draft wasn't bad for the most part, but what he did wrong was trade a future 2nd for a current 3rd. That's not the kind of move you do at the beginning of a rebuild. Not unless you want to raise the floor on your team. What good will having Derek Cox a year early do for a team that's not ready to compete versus having a 2nd round pick the next year?
The next year we only had 6 picks. The year after that 5. And then in his last year, 6 again.<i> </i> Yes, we traded our 4th in 2010 for Kirk Morrison, who was here only a year.
Gene never seemed to have long-term plans. He planned for the short term. This failed when his QB didn't pan out, because a bad QB will make a mediocre team terrible. He also valued character over talent (at least until his final year, when he was desperate and traded up for Blackmon).
Gene had his guys, and he wanted them, and would trade up for them when he didn't have the ammunition to do so.
Caldwell on the other hand seems to be more patience, with more plans for the long-term. He doesn't mind if we're terrible now. He didn't want to build a higher floor. I'm sure he could've made this a 4 win team if he wanted to in just a year. But that would not have benefited the team in the long run. Not because of draft position, but because building that floor higher will do nothing but put duct tape on the situation.
Quote:I think the big difference between the two was that Gene Smith wanted to build a floor of 'Mediocre'. His first draft wasn't bad for the most part, but what he did wrong was trade a future 2nd for a current 3rd. That's not the kind of move you do at the beginning of a rebuild. Not unless you want to raise the floor on your team. What good will having Derek Cox a year early do for a team that's not ready to compete versus having a 2nd round pick the next year?
The next year we only had 6 picks. The year after that 5. And then in his last year, 6 again.<i> </i> Yes, we traded our 4th in 2010 for Kirk Morrison, who was here only a year.
Gene never seemed to have long-term plans. He planned for the short term. This failed when his QB didn't pan out, because a bad QB will make a mediocre team terrible. He also valued character over talent (at least until his final year, when he was desperate and traded up for Blackmon).
Gene had his guys, and he wanted them, and would trade up for them when he didn't have the ammunition to do so.
Caldwell on the other hand seems to be more patience, with more plans for the long-term. He doesn't mind if we're terrible now. He didn't want to build a higher floor. I'm sure he could've made this a 4 win team if he wanted to in just a year. But that would not have benefited the team in the long run. Not because of draft position, but because building that floor higher will do nothing but put duct tape on the situation.
Well said!
Quote:trollin'
Look who'se talking.
Quote:Interesting read but he admittedly is only going off of this season. The Jags have a whole new scheme in place, that apparently all of the linemen/ RB are getting used to.
Monroe should have been dealt on draft day before he had a chance to show regression in a new system.
Situation = botched.
How do we know that Monroe originally wasnt in long term plans originally? After being put in new offensive scheme and further evaluation from coaches/GM they decided to move in another direction?
See, I can make things up too.
Quote:I'd hold off on his draft prowess. I honestly don't see anyone in his first draft that is capable of being a star or better than average besides Joeckel. Cyprien will be a decent player once he learns coverage. Gratz, Evans and Mcray will be average at best. Harris, Robinson and Sanders will be busts IMO. All three out of the league in less than 4 years. Whether this draft is bad or good solely depends on Joeckel. If he becomes a top 5 or even top 10 LT, Then its good. Anything less, and its bad.
With that said, All of his others moves besides monroe trade have been absolutely masterful. I was in awe with what he did with Danthony Smith. Announcing his cut list earlier to draw in a trade from someone way low on the waiver wire. Absolutely masterful. I also love his open mind to Tony Khans numba's division. The man will adapt based on any league change and that has me more hopeful than anything.
I disagree. I think Cyprien and Evans (6th round) will be well above average. Evans has a nose for the ball and is fun to watch.
Quote:
I disagree. I think Cyprien and Evans (6th round) will be well above average. Evans has a nose for the ball and is fun to watch.
Let me tell you a couple names that were also "fun to watch". Tim Tebow, Vince Young, Reggie Nelson, Reggie Williams, Matt Jones, and hell I remember people saying Quinn Gray was fun to watch. Fun to watch doesn't bring home the bacon, mate. As for nose for the ball, Thats probably his only positive vibe at the moment. We'll see what happens when quarterbacks/receivers get more tape on him.
Just remember, Even Cecil "Go route" Shorts is being normalized by man coverage and double teams. Star players and Above average players don't let that slow them down from making plays. This team needs elite players that can produce numbers even in the event of the opponent knowing their game.
Quote:Interesting read but he admittedly is only going off of this season. The Jags have a whole new scheme in place, that apparently all of the linemen/ RB are getting used to.
Monroe should have been dealt on draft day before he had a chance to show regression in a new system.
Situation = botched.
Botched? I don't agree, MD. I'm wondering now if you aren't just reaching for reasons to bash the GM.
Quote:Let me tell you a couple names that were also "fun to watch". Tim Tebow, Vince Young, Reggie Nelson, Reggie Williams, Matt Jones, and hell I remember people saying Quinn Gray was fun to watch. Fun to watch doesn't bring home the bacon, mate. As for nose for the ball, Thats probably his only positive vibe at the moment. We'll see what happens when quarterbacks/receivers get more tape on him.
Just remember, Even Cecil "Go route" Shorts is being normalized by man coverage and double teams. Star players and Above average players don't let that slow them down from making plays. This team needs elite players that can produce numbers even in the event of the opponent knowing their game.
I'm not ready to anoint CS III yet. He really hasn't done much.
Quote:The most important attribute of any leader of any organization whether it be in sports or the corporate world is foresight, making decisions that are conducive to long term continuous success rather than short term gains, no matter how much pressure there is to do the opposite. This was evident when David Caldwell didn't draft a QB this past April despite the pressure from both the media and fans. DC is clearly targeting a QB in the 2014 NFL Draft, and that has obviously been the plan from the start of his tenure, he made the right decision by not wasting an important resource (draft pick) on a guy that didn't meet that vision in the 2013 NFL draft.
This was also evident in the Eugene Monroe trade, the Jaguars weren't going to extend on franchise tag Eugene at seasons end, and so getting back multiple resources (draft picks) for a player who isn't a part of the future was the absolute right move, no matter what fans are the media think. David Caldwell was hired to build a long term sustainable winning organization, and all of the moves that have been made so far suggest the plan hasn't changed, despite the pressure from the fans and he media to do the opposite.
No that was a short term move. If he was making a long term move he would not have made the trade until he could get optimal value wether that means resigning Monroe and trading him 1 or 2 years from now or just keep him and suffer have 2 good tackles for like 5 years. Instead he made a short term move so he could have a little bit more ammo for the next draft. And please stop saying that Monroe wasn't part of the future it's like you're trying to convince us that Caldwell is short sighted. If he wasn't part of the future Caldwell would never have said after the fact that Monroe wasn't on the block and instead would have told us he was shopping him around and that was the best he got. I say that because Caldwell seems like a very straightforward guy and that the trade was a spur of the moment thing. (he got an un solicited call)
Quote:Interesting read but he admittedly is only going off of this season. The Jags have a whole new scheme in place, that apparently all of the linemen/ RB are getting used to.
Monroe should have been dealt on draft day before he had a chance to show regression in a new system.
Situation = botched.
You keep side-stepping this question every time I ask you. Why do you expect a 3rd for Monroe when Brandon Albert, who has been than Monroe the past 2 years, was offered a 3rd from a GM who knew this year he had to go all-in or be fired. A 4th and 5th is the next best thing, which is fair when comparing the performance of Albert vs Monroe. Your expectations are unrealistic.
Quote:No that was a short term move. If he was making a long term move he would not have made the trade until he could get optimal value wether that means resigning Monroe and trading him 1 or 2 years from now or just keep him and suffer have 2 good tackles for like 5 years. Instead he made a short term move so he could have a little bit more ammo for the next draft. And please stop saying that Monroe wasn't part of the future it's like you're trying to convince us that Caldwell is short sighted. If he wasn't part of the future Caldwell would never have said after the fact that Monroe wasn't on the block and instead would have told us he was shopping him around and that was the best he got. I say that because Caldwell seems like a very straightforward guy and that the trade was a spur of the moment thing. (he got an un solicited call)
How is trading a guy that wasn't going to be resigned for future draft picks considered a short term move? Your entire statement doesn't make any sense; resigning and trading him 1 to 2 years from now? This is one of the dumbest post I've seen on this message board.
Quote:You keep side-stepping this question every time I ask you. Why do you expect a 3rd for Monroe when Brandon Albert, who has been than Monroe the past 2 years, was offered a 3rd from a GM who knew this year he had to go all-in or be fired. A 4th and 5th is the next best thing, which is fair when comparing the performance of Albert vs Monroe. Your expectations are unrealistic.
If you set unrealistic expectations, you will only be disappointed. When his shtick is to constantly act disappointed, those expectations fit him.