Curious as to people's takes on this question.
For me, I started having serious doubts/ seeing red flags with Gene Smith with the handling/ selecting of Alualu. Not necessarily the "choice" of Alualu because I did think he was going to be a good player - but more specifically the value assessed to Alualu by Gene. It showed me that Gene had no concept on "value" / or working the draft and commits the cardinal sin of falling in love with "his" players and will overdraft them regardless, hence "leaving points on the field" to use a football analogy.
It has been reported many times that the SF 49ers had a trade on the board of a 4th rounder to the Jags for swapping picks 11 & 14 in that 2010 draft, but Gene was too afraid of the Dolphins maybe selecting Alualu at 12 to make the deal.
That also showed me that Gene was too rigid. As a GM, you always should have a fall back plan ready to go at a moments notice. So had the Jags done the smart thing and taken the Niner deal and the Dolphins did select Alualu, there should have been either a trade down plan (again) or simply another player that Gene had similarly valued to the draft slot that we could have instead selected. It was hardly as if Alualu was the only pick in the first round that would have been any good, - as it turned out, he wasn't really that good at all.
After that gaffe, more and more mistakes kept turning up by Gene, culminating in the big one, the trade up for Gabbert.....and the rest was history....
Quote:jerry porter signing.
Thats Shack Harris' regime....
Although we could make another thread like this for his regime, too :teehee:
Quote:Curious as to people's takes on this question.
For me, I started having serious doubts/ seeing red flags with Gene Smith with the handling/ selecting of Alualu. Not necessarily the "choice" of Alualu because I did think he was going to be a good player - but more specifically the value assessed to Alualu by Gene. It showed me that Gene had no concept on "value" / or working the draft and commits the cardinal sin of falling in love with "his" players and will overdraft them regardless, hence "leaving points on the field" to use a football analogy.
It has been reported many times that the SF 49ers had a trade on the board of a 4th rounder to the Jags for swapping picks 11 & 14 in that 2010 draft, but Gene was too afraid of the Dolphins maybe selecting Alualu at 12 to make the deal.
That also showed me that Gene was too rigid. As a GM, you always should have a fall back plan ready to go at a moments notice. So had the Jags done the smart thing and taken the Niner deal and the Dolphins did select Alualu, there should have been either a trade down plan (again) or simply another player that Gene had similarly valued to the draft slot that we could have instead selected. It was hardly as if Alualu was the only pick in the first round that would have been any good, - as it turned out, he wasn't really that good at all.
After that gaffe, more and more mistakes kept turning up by Gene, culminating in the big one, the trade up for Gabbert.....and the rest was history....
I'd say my first real hunch started when he traded a 2nd round pick for a 3rd round pick in 2009. I don't like GMs that give up that much value.
When the Alualu pick happened I was too happy that he didn't fall into the Tebow pit to really think about it at the time. In the next season when it became clear that Alualu was just a guy it became more apparent to me that Gene Smith didn't understand how to build a successful franchise.
The constant big money signings of second tier free agents like Pozluzny also enforced the feeling. You don't give big money to guys that don't make an impact on the game.
It initially started with the Don Carey situation. He cut two safeties that granted were great, but were wayyyyyy better than Carey. I mean, we would have made the playoffs if we beat the Colts at the end of the year. Throwing a terrible safety out there was just dumb when we were competing for the playoffs.
I didn't like the Gabbert pick. There were a lot of moves I didn't like. What finally made me realize Gene was bad GM was when he drafted a punter in the 3rd round. He always wanted to be the smartest kid in the class. I agree with TMD, Gene had absolutely no concept of value.
Quote:I'd say my first real hunch started when he traded a 2nd round pick for a 3rd round pick in 2009. I don't like GMs that give up that much value.
Thats a good example. I had forgot about that one. :thanks:
The timing and handling of Garrard's release was the first bell going off for me but I remained optimistic. Giving Marcedes and Thomas new deals too early rubbed me wrong and a few FA signings were equally stupid.
At some point it just became "I hope a few of these injured draft picks come back strong." :confused:
Quote:The timing and handling of Garrard's release was the first bell going off for me but I remained optimistic. Giving Marcedes and Thomas new deals too early rubbed me wrong and a few FA signings were equally stupid.
At some point it just became "I hope a few of these injured draft picks come back strong." :confused:
Yeah, the "pay player X huge money/ long term off of an outlier big season" became a bad theme during the Gene Smith era...
His first offseason when the team did not appear to attempt a trade for Jay Cutler. And going another offseason without addressing the QB position at all. It was so bad I remember alot of people being excited we claimed Trent Edwards off waivers.
Quote:Thats a good example. I had forgot about that one. :thanks:
I could have seen trading the next season's 3rd and some 5th round or later picks along with it to make it worth NE's time, but trading what would obviously be a middle of the round or higher 2nd round pick for a late 3rd round pick was complete idiocy.
He also should have drafted more linemen in the later rounds (offense and defense) overall and ignored those late round special teams prospects he used to take every year. Take big guys and keep taking big guys until you actually have a good group of them then keep taking them if good prospects are available. You can sign guys off the street to be gunners on special teams.
Quote:His first offseason when the team did not appear to attempt a trade for Jay Cutler.
Thats an interesting one, too. Might be the first time I have heard of that one. But, considering the team's ongoing misfortune at QB, I like it. :thanks:
The Alualu pick was a red flag for me -- but I was willing to give Alualu a shot. A reach isn't a reach if the player turns out to be good. I was always a bit confused about the love for Gene Smith as a GM. And all I can see is it's because of Coughlin and Vic. I still remember Alualu being picked. Our T.V. and internet was out, so I had to listen to it on the radio. I had no idea who the heck he was, and my reaction was equal to that of the guy on the radio. (Very confused)
I began to first have doubts about Gene after that. By the time Mr. Weaver sold the team, I felt that Gene Smith had to go. He had 3 years to do something, and had nothing to show for it.
Hiring Mularkey and drafting a punter in the third made it clear that Gene really didn't know what he was doing. As good of a scout as he might have been, he was terrible at running the show.
Quote:I'd say my first real hunch started when he traded a 2nd round pick for a 3rd round pick in 2009. I don't like GMs that give up that much value.
When the Alualu pick happened I was too happy that he didn't fall into the Tebow pit to really think about it at the time. In the next season when it became clear that Alualu was just a guy it became more apparent to me that Gene Smith didn't understand how to build a successful franchise.
The constant big money signings of second tier free agents like Pozluzny also enforced the feeling. You don't give big money to guys that don't make an impact on the game.
The Future 2nd for a 3rd now has always bugged me as well. The main argument for it is "We basically took Cox with our 2nd round pick for the next year! We just got him early!" But if Cox was such a great player, then we could have easily taken him over Pot Roast. Gene Smith fell in love with players, and that's the first real example of it. Alualu being the second.
I was also glad about not falling into the Tebow pit -- but I had been hoping we'd get Jimmy Clausen. Ultimately I'm glad we didn't. Though in my defense I had only read a few 'experts' on Clausen.
Quote:The Alualu pick was a red flag for me -- but I was willing to give Alualu a shot. A reach isn't a reach if the player turns out to be good.
I totally DIS-agree with that last part.
You should always try to get a player as late as you possibly can (within reason) in the draft, otherwise, you are just threw value away.
For instance, yes Tom Brady turned out to be great - we all know that - but why draft him with a 3rd rounder when he's not likely to be drafted until after the 5th?....you can grab players more commensurate to their value in the rounds leading up to Brady's approx perceived value and then take him there.
Trading up in later rounds a few spots to get your player I don't mind....but doing stuff like the Alualu reach and Gabbert deals, I do not like. He'd have been better waiting to see if Gabbert merely fell to 16, and if he didn't, the Kaepernick or Mallett options were still there...this goes back to my point of being too rigid and making the cardinal sin of falling in love with "his" players.
Quote:Thats an interesting one, too. Might be the first time I have heard of that one. But, considering the team's ongoing misfortune at QB, I like it. :thanks:
It was a steep price for him. But it would have been a bold move and a step that the status quo Garrard wasn't good enough. Not sure Weaver would have signed off on it to be honest though.
When he took Anger in the 3rd that did it for me. I wasn't crazy about the 2010 draft but was so impressed by the 2009 draft I figured it would all work out in the end.
That's easy Mad Dog. I knew Gene Smith was going to be a bad GM the minute he was hired. The Jaguars organization wanted to have us believe that Gene Smith was this great guy all the while we all know that he was part of the three headed monster that lets us picking all those terrible first round picks. I hated to Tyson A luau pick, did not care for the Cox or Blaine Gabbert Trade but the Bryan anger picK was the last straw.
Quote:The Future 2nd for a 3rd now has always bugged me as well. The main argument for it is "We basically took Cox with our 2nd round pick for the next year! We just got him early!" But if Cox was such a great player, then we could have easily taken him over Pot Roast. Gene Smith fell in love with players, and that's the first real example of it. Alualu being the second.
I was also glad about not falling into the Tebow pit -- but I had been hoping we'd get Jimmy Clausen. Ultimately I'm glad we didn't. Though in my defense I had only read a few 'experts' on Clausen.
I was a Clausen fan. I will admit. But it was pretty obvious that Weis was good at making chicken poop (Quinn/Clausen) look like chicken salad.
Quote:I totally DIS-agree with that last part.
You should always try to get a player as late as you possibly can in the draft, otherwise, you are just threw value away.
For instance, yes Tom Brady turned out to be great - we all know that - but why draft him with a 3rd rounder when he's not likely to be drafted until after the 5th?....you can grab players more commensurate to their value in the rounds leading up to Brady's approx perceived value and then take him there.
Trading up in later rounds a few spots to get your player I don't mind....but doing stuff like the Alualu reach and Gabbert deals, I do not like. He'd have been better waiting to see if Gabbert merely fell to 16, and if he didn't, the Kaepernick or Mallett options were still there...this goes back to my point of being too rigid and making the cardinal sin of falling in love with "his" players.
Gene was never good at figuring out where players would be taken. But if Alualu turned out to be an Elite DT, and given that we didn't have a 2nd round pick and allegedly couldn't trade down, that pick would have turned out fine.
Trading up for a QB isn't a bad thing either. If Gabbert had turned out to be a Top 10~ QB in the league right now, nobody would complain about trading up to grab him. I don't think the Redskins are complaining that they traded up for RGIII when they could have waited around for Tannehill.
The problem wasn't that he picked the players when he did. The problem was that he picked bad players. Lot's of players are 'surprise picks'.