Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(07-01-2017, 12:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]While I don't think Bortles was "on fire" for any extended stretch of time in 2015, I do agree with much of the sentiment put forth in the past several posts about his being overly demonized at times. He's shown potential worthy of one more season's evaluation. (Or a least a stretch of games.)

The thing that I feel like is getting glossed over right now by the optimistic crowd here is just how horribly inconsistent his accuracy was in both of the last two seasons. Clearly he was inaccurate in 2016 more often than the prior year.  But a solid percentage of his positive production (in both seasons) came from his receivers bailing him out of bad throws. I'm not as quick to dismiss that stuff as some here apparently. It's GOT to get better.

I do believe Hackett and Marrone have a plan. I do think they will mitigate his mistakes, and I do believe he'll improve his technique and accuracy to some degree.  But I'm not ready to gloss over his 2016 performance as "not that bad." It was pretty darn bad, my friends. If he reverts to anything like that again for any stretch of 2017, I'm ready to move on.

(07-01-2017, 12:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]While I don't think Bortles was "on fire" for any extended stretch of time in 2015, I do agree with much of the sentiment put forth in the past several posts about his being overly demonized at times. He's shown potential worthy of one more season's evaluation. (Or a least a stretch of games.)

The thing that I feel like is getting glossed over right now by the optimistic crowd here is just how horribly inconsistent his accuracy was in both of the last two seasons. Clearly he was inaccurate in 2016 more often than the prior year.  But a solid percentage of his positive production (in both seasons) came from his receivers bailing him out of bad throws. I'm not as quick to dismiss that stuff as some here apparently. It's GOT to get better.

I do believe Hackett and Marrone have a plan. I do think they will mitigate his mistakes, and I do believe he'll improve his technique and accuracy to some degree.  But I'm not ready to gloss over his 2016 performance as "not that bad." It was pretty darn bad, my friends. If he reverts to anything like that again for any stretch of 2017, I'm ready to move on.

(07-01-2017, 10:41 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2017, 08:52 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I don't buy into the garbage time stat argument that some people try to throw out there. If that were a legitimate reason, then every bad team's QB should be throwing 35 TDs and that just doesn't happen.

This past season Bortles actually did throw quite a bit during garbage time situations, but there are some on this board that try to suggest the same thing was true in 2015, and that's just not accurate. Bortles was on fire in 2015, and for the most part his stats were in clutch situations with the team often oh so close to winning. There was very little garbage tiime in 2015 as Blake consistently played well enough to win games, but the defense just kept choking. I swear if we had the current defense back then, we very well might have made the Playoffs.

(07-02-2017, 10:07 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2017, 10:41 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]This past season Bortles actually did throw quite a bit during garbage time situations, but there are some on this board that try to suggest the same thing was true in 2015, and that's just not accurate. Bortles was on fire in 2015, and for the most part his stats were in clutch situations with the team often oh so close to winning. There was very little garbage tiime in 2015 as Blake consistently played well enough to win games, but the defense just kept choking. I swear if we had the current defense back then, we very well might have made the Playoffs.

I had looked up this stat a while back and in 2016, the Jags were within one score in the 4th quarter in 13 out of 16 games, IIRC.  That's actually a better percentage than they had in 2015.  Maybe there's a difference of opinion on what qualifies as garbage time.

(07-02-2017, 11:17 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-02-2017, 10:07 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]I had looked up this stat a while back and in 2016, the Jags were within one score in the 4th quarter in 13 out of 16 games, IIRC.  That's actually a better percentage than they had in 2015.  Maybe there's a difference of opinion on what qualifies as garbage time.

I never would have guessed this. I recall us falling behind early in a lot of games, and then there were some where we started to come back but it almost always too little too late. In 2015 we were oh so close to winning several games. 

(07-02-2017, 12:07 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]That sounds about right except I had looked at within a score during the 4th quarter as opposed to at the start.  So I'd probably add that first texans game as a winnable one too. (Jason Meyers kicked a field goal to start the 4th making it 21-13).

(07-01-2017, 07:27 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2017, 12:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]While I don't think Bortles was "on fire" for any extended stretch of time in 2015, I do agree with much of the sentiment put forth in the past several posts about his being overly demonized at times. He's shown potential worthy of one more season's evaluation. (Or a least a stretch of games.)

The thing that I feel like is getting glossed over right now by the optimistic crowd here is just how horribly inconsistent his accuracy was in both of the last two seasons. Clearly he was inaccurate in 2016 more often than the prior year.  But a solid percentage of his positive production (in both seasons) came from his receivers bailing him out of bad throws. I'm not as quick to dismiss that stuff as some here apparently. It's GOT to get better.

I...

Blake was "on fire" for several last season games connecting on one deep pass after another. Granted we have some exceptional receivers capable of making the necessary adjustments on the ball, but he was able to see them getting open and to place the ball where it needed to be. He doesn't need to be Troy Aikman accurate.

Still, the big concern I have relates to his arm fatigue. Late in his rookie season and then rather early last year, he had games where he practically couldn't get off a throw. His arm was virtually limp in two out of three seasons. That's my concern, and I'm hoping they've figured things out. He may have a chronic condition wherein he ultimately may have to resort to a backup role in the NFL so that he can come in and play at a high level when needed without wearing out his arm. I hope it doesn't come down to that. 

Quote:“We’re pretty good. Like, real good” House says, slumping on a couch in the office, adjusting the glasses that along with the brown moustache make him seem younger than his 68 years. “Our if-thens … we can actually tell you point in time exit velocity capacity, and predict what it will be if you do this and this. In other words, we can tell you what you are today and tell you that if you do this with your legs, this with your torso, this with your arms as far as conditioning is concerned and do the same with the vectors of your body, then in six-to-12 weeks you will be throwing this hard.”
He pauses.
“That’s why we keep having people show up,” he says.

(07-02-2017, 02:03 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]For SeldomRite's post, it would be interesting to see what the first score was into the 4th quarter by either team (not trying to assign you homework.)  I feel like if a team gets up 10-14 points they can go into a "bend don't break" defense to ensure their 2 score lead, and a burn the clock offense to chew up the clock.

(07-02-2017, 12:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2017, 07:27 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]


Blake was "on fire" for several last season games connecting on one deep pass after another. Granted we have some exceptional receivers capable of making the necessary adjustments on the ball, but he was able to see them getting open and to place the ball where it needed to be. He doesn't need to be Troy Aikman accurate.

Still, the big concern I have relates to his arm fatigue. Late in his rookie season and then rather early last year, he had games where he practically couldn't get off a throw. His arm was virtually limp in two out of three seasons. That's my concern, and I'm hoping they've figured things out. He may have a chronic condition wherein he ultimately may have to resort to a backup role in the NFL so that he can come in and play at a high level when needed without wearing out his arm. I hope it doesn't come down to that. 

I really believe that whole narrative of arm fatigue is overblown and merely a result of Blake trying to throw the football so incorrectly.  The number of passes he threw without stepping into the throw and turning his hips to target was astounding in my review.  His arm was beat because he was making it do all the work and robbing his passes of the power and velocity they should have when utilizing the lower body properly. 

This is why Blake goes to House and it's a big part of House's teaching.

(07-02-2017, 11:42 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-02-2017, 11:17 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I never would have guessed this. I recall us falling behind early in a lot of games, and then there were some where we started to come back but it almost always too little too late. In 2015 we were oh so close to winning several games. 

Let's go game by game.

L Packers: Game ends within reach with "BRILLIANT!" behind the line of scrimmage pass to hurns on 4th down.

L Chargers: all garbage time

L Ravens: Game within reach, Blake gets tipped pass int, throws INT very in very similar situation to the insane completion Brady got in the Superbowl at the end of a game that was probably winnable.

W Colts: Won thanks to 4th quarter TD from Blake keeping the team ahead when the defense was rolling over to just let the colts score at will.

W Bears: Won with long 4th quarter TD from Blake  and Ramsey taking Hoyer to school on 4th down.

L Oakland: Not close

L titans: Not close

L Chiefs: 16-7 into fourth quarter

L texans: 21-10 into fourth quarter

L Lions: 19-16 Jaguars going into fourth

L Buffalo: 21-14 going into fourth

L Broncos: 17-7 going into fourth

L Vikings: 16-12 Jaguars going into fourth

L texans: 20-11 Jaguars going into fourth

W titans: Jaguars won big

L colts: 17-17 going into fourth.

So, by my count that's 7 games the Jaguars lost that they were either close going into the fourth quarter, or leading, plus their other three wins.

They had a couple of other games that were probably close enough to be tossups if the Jaguars were a good team (broncos, Chiefs)

Which means the team, even as crappy as it was, only lost 4 games that I don't think it would be realistic to possibly win if it were a well coached team, the chargers, the raiders, the first texans game, and the first titans game.

(07-02-2017, 03:29 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]You can't go by the final score and say we only lost by this many points. We were getting smoked by the Titans at halftime, then we scored 22 points after they put in their backups.

(07-02-2017, 03:29 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]You can't go by the final score and say we only lost by this many points. We were getting smoked by the Titans at halftime, then we scored 22 points after they put in their backups.

(06-10-2017, 02:55 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]The OP started the thread by assigning blame.  I think the discussion was on topic though I would have preferred a more civil and rational response from SeldomRite.  It's the internet though so it comes with the territory.

I do think Bortles could win 8 or more games with this roster.  I also think he could be the reason we don't if he doesn't progress.

(07-01-2017, 05:24 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2017, 12:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]While I don't think Bortles was "on fire" for any extended stretch of time in 2015, I do agree with much of the sentiment put forth in the past several posts about his being overly demonized at times. He's shown potential worthy of one more season's evaluation. (Or a least a stretch of games.)

The thing that I feel like is getting glossed over right now by the optimistic crowd here is just how horribly inconsistent his accuracy was in both of the last two seasons. Clearly he was inaccurate in 2016 more often than the prior year.  But a solid percentage of his positive production (in both seasons) came from his receivers bailing him out of bad throws. I'm not as quick to dismiss that stuff as some here apparently. It's GOT to get better.

I do believe Hackett and Marrone have a plan. I do think they will mitigate his mistakes, and I do believe he'll improve his technique and accuracy to some degree.  But I'm not ready to gloss over his 2016 performance as "not that bad." It was pretty darn bad, my friends. If he reverts to anything like that again for any stretch of 2017, I'm ready to move on.

I don't think anyone is glossing over his consistency. I think from all sides, that is his number one criticism.

I think the point that people are making that are still backing him is that if he gets that consistency everyone wants, he makes enough WOW plays that could push him into the elite category.

(07-01-2017, 05:24 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2017, 12:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]While I don't think Bortles was "on fire" for any extended stretch of time in 2015, I do agree with much of the sentiment put forth in the past several posts about his being overly demonized at times. He's shown potential worthy of one more season's evaluation. (Or a least a stretch of games.)

The thing that I feel like is getting glossed over right now by the optimistic crowd here is just how horribly inconsistent his accuracy was in both of the last two seasons. Clearly he was inaccurate in 2016 more often than the prior year.  But a solid percentage of his positive production (in both seasons) came from his receivers bailing him out of bad throws. I'm not as quick to dismiss that stuff as some here apparently. It's GOT to get better.

I do believe Hackett and Marrone have a plan. I do think they will mitigate his mistakes, and I do believe he'll improve his technique and accuracy to some degree.  But I'm not ready to gloss over his 2016 performance as "not that bad." It was pretty darn bad, my friends. If he reverts to anything like that again for any stretch of 2017, I'm ready to move on.

I don't think anyone is glossing over his consistency. I think from all sides, that is his number one criticism.

I think the point that people are making that are still backing him is that if he gets that consistency everyone wants, he makes enough WOW plays that could push him into the elite category.