Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(07-09-2017, 08:07 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]When was the Jaguars last turning point game? I think a lot of people would point to the Patriots playoffs loss of 2007 season, but the Jaguars still played some quality football after that. No I'd say the real turning point game was in 2010 when the Jaguars went to Indianapolis at 8-5 to face a limping 7-6 colts team that looked like it was ready to say goodnight.

Instead David Garrard showed once and for all he was never a franchise level QB, Peyton showed that we were his [BLEEP] even when his health was suffering, and the Jaguars never recovered after the loss, losing their last three games of the season and failing to ever seriously challenge for the division title, or even a winning record, since then.

The Jaguars are still the only AFCS team to never win the division, and 2010 should have been the year they did it. Since that day it's been all downhill on the field for this franchise.

I haven't commented on this, but I agree this was the start of the Jags decline.

Just read that thread about the curse of Oehser. Seems pretty relevant. Him replacing Vic was the turning point.

(07-10-2017, 07:59 AM)StitchJones Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-10-2017, 07:31 AM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]How many games where bortles threw for 300 yds when down by 21 pts? If it didn't happen often then stop downgrading blake bortles year because statistically blake bortles 2015 year was better than anything garrard has done. Please save me the garrard won games arguments because he had a better team and structure coaching wise around him at the time and they won alot of games despite of him not because he put the team on his back and won games. To future make my point think of how many people on Garrards coaching staff have been or currently are head coaches. Del Rio, Koetter, Lynn, and Mike Smith. Blake on the other hand coaching staff during his tenure as a starter were Gus Bradley Homeboys so you all figure it out. lol.

You're over looking the one statistic that really counts when comparing Bortles to Garrard; we won more games with Garrard than we ever have with Bortles! Sorry, but imho much of Bortles 2015 'statistical success' was a result of 'garbage time' plays and the fact that at that time both of the Allens were 'off the radar' as far as the opposition was concerned; result... they didn't draw the coverage that they have since then. Bortles stats in 2015 looks like a fluke... until Bortles shows us it wasn't.

So please tell me how many garbage time games did blake had in 2015? I promise you it wasn't many at all they was in almost every game that season. David had a better structure around him including coaching staff but lets not have facts get in the way.

This is so depressing.

In 2010, we had a legitimate shot, probably even the favorite to win the division when we were 8-5 going into the final three games and all 3 were lost. Haven't been close since but hopefully that will change this year!

(07-11-2017, 01:12 AM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]This is so depressing.

Can I talk you out of it because your life is so valuable to the rest of us. LOL

(07-10-2017, 09:28 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-10-2017, 07:59 AM)StitchJones Wrote: [ -> ]You're over looking the one statistic that really counts when comparing Bortles to Garrard; we won more games with Garrard than we ever have with Bortles! Sorry, but imho much of Bortles 2015 'statistical success' was a result of 'garbage time' plays and the fact that at that time both of the Allens were 'off the radar' as far as the opposition was concerned; result... they didn't draw the coverage that they have since then. Bortles stats in 2015 looks like a fluke... until Bortles shows us it wasn't.

So please tell me how many garbage time games did blake had in 2015? I promise you it wasn't many at all they was in almost every game that season. David had a better structure around him including coaching staff but lets not have facts get in the way.

Your 'snarky' response of "but lets not have 'facts' get in the way" aside, I think you are deluding yourself; we were only ever 'in' a few games. In fact some of the games we 'won' were in contention. Still, a win is a win. There is no question that David had a much better team around him (taken as a whole) than Bortles has. Nevertheless, the stat that was the point of my original comment was the win/loss ratio of Garrard as compared to Bortles.

... and I stand by my comment that until Bortles shows us some kind'a consistency (other than the bad kind he has been consistently showing) his stats are and will remain a fluke. Good quarterback performance will invariably lead to wins. We haven't been getting many wins. Which means...

I hope Bortles will prove me wrong this season and we'll have reason for optimism; but until then... we'll see.

(07-11-2017, 08:47 AM)StitchJones Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-10-2017, 09:28 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]So please tell me how many garbage time games did blake had in 2015? I promise you it wasn't many at all they was in almost every game that season. David had a better structure around him including coaching staff but lets not have facts get in the way.

Your 'snarky' response of "but lets not have 'facts' get in the way" aside, I think you are deluding yourself; we were only ever 'in' a few games. In fact some of the games we 'won' were in contention. Still, a win is a win. There is no question that David had a much better team around him (taken as a whole) than Bortles has. Nevertheless, the stat that was the point of my original comment was the win/loss ratio of Garrard as compared to Bortles.

... and I stand by my comment that until Bortles shows us some kind'a consistency (other than the bad kind he has been consistently showing) his stats are and will remain a fluke. Good quarterback performance will invariably lead to wins. We haven't been getting many wins. Which means...

I hope Bortles will prove me wrong this season and we'll have reason for optimism; but until then... we'll see.

I understand how you feel and I guess we got to agree to disagree in this situation.

The Arizona game where they took out Leftwich. He was never the same after starting to show signs. Do I think we would have had great success? perhaps but he was starting to play well.

(07-09-2017, 07:39 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]When we turned out back on Mark Brunell and drafted Leftwich.

Also you could say when we traded up to draft Harvey. Or when we list 2 offensive lineman before week 1 of the 2008 season.

Turned our back on Brunell? The writing was on the wall, Garrard was already drafted as a potential successor prior to Del Rio Coming in. Most knew it was time to move on. I think two or three teams had an interest in Brunell prior to 2004 and the Redskins offered a great deal. This is a business and you have to leave personal feelings aside. Brunell was never going to take this team anywhere during a rebuild. 

Del Rio put together a decent rebuild albeit with many players coming from TC era drafts. I really admired what Del Rio was able to do. It was the right time to move on for TC, I don't see the Del Rio/Shack Era as the failure that most do. 

As for Selecting Harvey, that team was doomed to fail as several players hit a decline all at once. That team had a winning record going into the bye week. This was the first season I had ever seen Taylor being absolutely ineffective and that hurt. Henderson and Stroud were done, Brian Williams couldn't cover, Nelson was undisciplined - Garrard, I believe played through some injuries and was not the player he was in 07. Even if we had taken Campbell at 28 in that draft (the consensus need was D-Line) that team had little to no heart after the bye week and that's when you knew it was time for Del Rio to go. I felt like Del Rio wanted that Season to end somewhere around the bye week. Terrible morale across that team. 

Even then I woulndt say that was the moment - When you draft poorly and sign the wrong FA's it can really hurt you but the biggest failure of the last three regimes is that they could not secure a franchise B for long enough and it has nothing to do with Brunell

The turning point was Drafting Blake Bortles... He's run this team into the dumpster. Until Bortles departs this franchise.... there will be no playoffs. Get used to it.

(07-11-2017, 08:47 AM)StitchJones Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-10-2017, 09:28 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]So please tell me how many garbage time games did blake had in 2015? I promise you it wasn't many at all they was in almost every game that season. David had a better structure around him including coaching staff but lets not have facts get in the way.

... There is no question that David had a much better team around him (taken as a whole) than Bortles has.

I think that statement held water for Bortles first two seasons. Last year it was pretty close, and this season I don't think it holds up any longer.  (Coaching was a glaring difference in 2016 when comparing rosters of the two eras)

The current roster does not appear to be of lesser talent than the rosters of garrard's  good seasons. Unless the o line severely disappoints in the run game (again.)

You either got it or you dont. Don't blame coaching. Ramsey and Arob (in 2015) had the same coach and they did good. Bortles just ain't good.

If we would have held on to Brunell for another 3 years and Jimmy Smith could have give us another 2. Then we could have squeezed out a couple solid years. But no where near Super Bowl stuff.

Whoever is dogging Brunell, just remember he was our most valuable player for many years. Took us to 2 title games. Led the league in passing. Jimmy had 116 catch season. Both of our receivers were pro bowlers. He was the face of our team for several years.

(07-11-2017, 12:39 PM)David4499 Wrote: [ -> ]The turning point was Drafting Blake Bortles... He's run this team into the dumpster. Until Bortles departs this franchise.... there will be no playoffs. Get used to it.

NO kidding Gabbert had this team running so good.

(07-10-2017, 07:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Turning point game for me was when Jack Del Rio in 2005 decided it was a smart idea to start Leftwich over Garrard with a boot on his foot in the biggest game of the year against New England in the snow.

For me, that's when the politics of the front office reared it's ugly head. And as a fan. I was sick to my stomach. Brunell was traded too soon. He proved that by being the only QB since Cousins or RGIII's rookie year to lead the Redskins to a play-off appearance.

To make matters worse. They never gave Garrard a fair shake to develop as the starter and opted to draft Leftwich. That was costly to be sure. But the true downward spiral for me started with that 2005 QB decision in the biggest game the franchise had faced in years.

We won with Brunell, Leftwich and Garrard, so I wouldn't point the finger at any of them. You might say drafting Gabbert was where it all started, but it actually goes back a little earlier. On November 2, 2008, the Jaguars were facing a winless Bengals team who played their hearts out and beat the Jags. Del Rio blew up at Mike P, and in turn lost part of the locker room. The Jaguars haven't been a winning team since. They beat the Broncos in Denver a couple games prior, but the closest they've had since to a winning record was going 8-8 in 2010. While I love JDR as a head coach in this league, that's really where it started.

To better illustrate this point, the Jaguars regular season record currently stands at 155-197(.440) in the regular season with a 5-6 postseason record. They've never been to the postseason since 2007, but let me break down their regular season record as of this game....

• Prior to November 2008, the Jaguars were 116-99 (.540).
  
• From November 2008 until now, the Jaguars are 39-98 (.283).
  

(07-11-2017, 02:37 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]You either got it or you dont. Don't blame coaching. Ramsey and Arob (in 2015) had the same coach and they did good. Bortles just ain't good.

If we would have held on to Brunell for another 3 years and Jimmy Smith could have give us another 2. Then we could have squeezed out a couple solid years. But no where near Super Bowl stuff.

Whoever is dogging Brunell, just remember he was our most valuable player for many years. Took us to 2 title games. Led the league in passing. Jimmy had 116 catch season. Both of our receivers were pro bowlers. He was the face of our team for several years.

Guess who else was good in 2015 Blake Bortles so go back into your hole and don't come out until you decide to play nice with everyone. LOL

Blake Bortles went off against the Titans last year on Thursday night Football. He went over 300 yards and 3 TD'S.

He picked them apart!

(07-11-2017, 11:13 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Blake Bortles went off against the Titans last year on Thursday night Football. He went over 300 yards and 3 TD'S.

He picked them apart!

So you pick that one game out of 16 and then you wonder why people might not take you seriously on here. This hate you have for Blake it's not healthy for you man and if new rooting for a person to fail based on your personal agenda then something is wrong with you.

Garbage time numbers against zone defenses once the team was already down 3 scores. I don't care if he throws 80 tds if we still lose every game by 17 pts. The only number that matters is the number of "W's" and for some reason Blake can't seem to make it past "L" in the alphabet.

(07-12-2017, 07:05 AM)David4499 Wrote: [ -> ]Garbage time numbers against zone defenses once the team was already down 3 scores. I don't care if he throws 80 tds if we still lose every game by 17 pts. The only number that matters is the number of "W's" and for some reason Blake can't seem to make it past "L" in the alphabet.

This. This is the bottom line. Stats (even artificially inflated 'garbage time' ones) really don't matter if the one stat.. the W/L one, isn't in our favor. Blake hasn't, as yet, produced where it really matters; that's all there is to it. It isn't all his fault, obviously; but... he is the quarterback so the odus of responsibility falls on him.

Blake needs to produce wins this season or he needs to sit down and lets see someone else try.