Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Drafts a left tackle #2 who played for a QB in college who always took off and ran so he never had shown to be a great blocker. 

Drafts a QB who claims to not be a natural thrower of the football and needs the playbook simplified going into year 4. 

Drafts a defensive end who wasn't even a natural pass rusher.

If you can only complain about 3 draft picks, out of 4 years of drafting, I'd say he's doing pretty good 

(07-19-2017, 11:26 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]If you can only complain about 3 draft picks, out of 4 years of drafting, I'd say he's doing pretty good 

Not if it's 3 out of your first 4 first round draft picks. Then I'd say he's doing pretty damn awful.

His entire 2013 draft was a clown show.

(07-19-2017, 11:44 PM)TealHammer Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2017, 11:26 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]If you can only complain about 3 draft picks, out of 4 years of drafting, I'd say he's doing pretty good 

Not if it's 3 out of your first  4 first round draft picks. Then I'd say he's doing pretty damn awful.

His entire 2013 draft was a clown show.

95% of the entire 2013 draft was a clown show. There's a reason why like 24 of the 32 first round picks didn't receive the 5th year option. That draft was awful from top to bottom.

First round picks are your flashy picks, nobody denies that. However, the fact of the matter is, you build your team through the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds. Caldwell has did exactly that.

Also, this thread is pointless and been repeated hundred times. It's pointless to post it right now. It holds zero weight until after this season is over. This year will be the telling year for Bortles and it'll be the start of the telling point for Fowler.

I'm tempted to just combine this thread with the 37 other Caldewll-Hater threads, but whatever...

He's made enough mistakes to deserve some ire despite my personal belief that he'll turn out to be a quality GM. But I get why folks question him. I just happen to believe the talent he's mined in rounds two through five is significant enough to earn him the second chance that Khan and TC have clearly already given him.

If I were to whine about Caldwell - my headline would be "Bradley," not Joeckel/Fowler etc. (despite the prematurity of such declarations)

I think the initial HC hire will turn out to be a far greater sin in the end. Even though it's been well established that the Khans had big influence on that hire.

I may be an underdog fan, but I have a feeling that DC will prove a benefit in the end.

(07-20-2017, 12:12 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm tempted to just combine this thread with the 37 other Caldewll-Hater threads, but whatever...

He's made enough mistakes to deserve some ire despite my personal belief that he'll turn out to be a quality GM.  But I get why folks question him. I just happen to believe the talent he's mined in rounds two through five is significant enough to earn him the second chance that Khan and TC have clearly already given him.  

If I were to whine about Caldwell -  my headline would be "Bradley," not Joeckel/Fowler etc. (despite the prematurity of such declarations)

I think the initial HC hire will turn out to be a far greater sin in the end. Even though it's been well established that the Khans had big influence on that hire.

I may be an underdog fan, but I have a feeling that DC will prove a benefit in the end.

Caldwell is not the issue and never has been. No GM will ever bat 100% and they'll all make mistakes. That's just the name of the game. Some people just love to bring up the same dead topics over and over.

Please just combine this thread into the other 37 because you, I and everybody else knows this thread is just going to be the same stuff spewed over and over. 

It's going to be half told information from the people who want to bash Caldwell and they will completely ignore anything logical that backs him. Just like in every other Caldwell thread. There's literally no point in having this thread right now, this close to the season. It's beyond pointless.

LT, DE, and QB are the most important positions on your team. Caldwell makes all those picks within the top 3 and might have missed on all of them. Sure, you don't want to read another Caldwell sucks thread but I don't think that's the case. He's gotten us a top 6 defense. Some of the best WR's in the NFL, the best running back to arguably come out of the draft since Adrian Peterson, etc. It just doesn't look good to miss those picks in the top 5 with the record we have.

(07-20-2017, 01:19 AM)haveaseat Wrote: [ -> ]LT, DE, and QB are the most important positions on your team. Caldwell makes all those picks within the top 3 and might have missed on all of them. Sure, you don't want to read another Caldwell sucks thread but I don't think that's the case. He's gotten us a top 6 defense. Some of the best WR's in the NFL, the best running back to arguably come out of the draft since Adrian Peterson, etc. It just doesn't look good to miss those picks in the top 5 with the record we have.

And what about Ramsey?

Oh wait, I already know the response from Caldwell haters...


"That pick doesn't count, Ramsey fell into our laps and was the no brainer pick."

If that was the case, he wouldn't have still been there at #5. Shutdown Corners don't grow on trees.

But again, it goes back to me saying that this thread isn't needed right now. Wait till the end of the season, when we'll really know which way Bortles is going, as well as Fowler. That will give us a much better gauge on those picks than right now.

(07-20-2017, 01:52 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-20-2017, 01:19 AM)haveaseat Wrote: [ -> ]LT, DE, and QB are the most important positions on your team. Caldwell makes all those picks within the top 3 and might have missed on all of them. Sure, you don't want to read another Caldwell sucks thread but I don't think that's the case. He's gotten us a top 6 defense. Some of the best WR's in the NFL, the best running back to arguably come out of the draft since Adrian Peterson, etc. It just doesn't look good to miss those picks in the top 5 with the record we have.

And what about Ramsey?

Oh wait, I already know the response from Caldwell haters...


"That pick doesn't count, Ramsey fell into our laps and was the no brainer pick."

If that was the case, he wouldn't have still been there at #5. Shutdown Corners don't grow on trees.

But again, it goes back to me saying that this thread isn't needed right now. Wait till the end of the season, when we'll really know which way Bortles is going, as well as Fowler. That will give us a much better gauge on those picks than right now.

I mean to be fair regarding Ramsey...yes, that really was a no brainer pick. And that's not true that he wouldn't still have been there at 5 if it was a no-brainer pick. Teams use an evaluation chart which is why you usually see defensive ends, QBs and tackles come off the board first. Just like this past year with Garrett, Trubisky and Thomas. Or Winston, Mariota, Fowler. Or Clowney, Robinson, Bortles. Then you really see where the dominoes fall. Ramsey being there because the Cowboys wanted Elliott made it a no-brainer. Hell, Patrick Peterson was picked at 5 and so was Deion Sanders. To pass on that would be worth firing a GM that night.

(07-20-2017, 02:08 AM)haveaseat Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-20-2017, 01:52 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]And what about Ramsey?

Oh wait, I already know the response from Caldwell haters...


"That pick doesn't count, Ramsey fell into our laps and was the no brainer pick."

If that was the case, he wouldn't have still been there at #5. Shutdown Corners don't grow on trees.

But again, it goes back to me saying that this thread isn't needed right now. Wait till the end of the season, when we'll really know which way Bortles is going, as well as Fowler. That will give us a much better gauge on those picks than right now.

I mean to be fair regarding Ramsey...yes, that really was a no brainer pick. And that's not true that he wouldn't still have been there at 5 if it was a no-brainer pick. Teams use an evaluation chart which is why you usually see defensive ends, QBs and tackles come off the board first. Just like this past year with Garrett, Trubisky and Thomas. Or Winston, Mariota, Fowler. Or Clowney, Robinson, Bortles. Then you really see where the dominoes fall. Ramsey being there because the Cowboys wanted Elliott made it a no-brainer. Hell, Patrick Peterson was picked at 5 and so was Deion Sanders. To pass on that would be worth firing a GM that night.

QBs get pushed up the board and taken 1, 2 or 3 because of absolute need. Whether they're worth it or not, we all know that. You get lucky and hit on one, you're set. Even if you're awful at everything else, you got plenty of time if you get lucky with that high QB pick. 

Bortles has shown the best and worst of both worlds so far. Hes got this year to make or break it.

LT was obviously a bust. I preferred Ansah in that draft, Caldwell went with the LT. Can't fault him for that. LT is a premium position. Fix the LT spot before you get the QB. Took what was there in a bad draft from top to bottom.

Fowler has been a knuckle head, but there's still promise. This year will be very telling for him and his future.

Caldwell has followed that recipe of premium picks and you can't fault that. Two of the three still pending.

Now as far as Ramsey goes, its real easy to just write off that pick, give no credit to Caldwell and say it doesn't matter because that was easy. Mainly because you see how good he was as a rookie, as well as how great he could be in the future. 

However, if he struggled his rookie season. You guys would be ripping Caldwell about how stupid of a pick that was. That no DB had any business going in the top 5 etc. Which I know I seen multiple times prior to the draft.

Only GM in NFL history to have 5 consecutive top 5 picks. 3 are confirmed busts imo. IDC what way you try to spin it, this guy is plum terrible.

(07-20-2017, 12:12 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm tempted to just combine this thread with the 37 other Caldewll-Hater threads, but whatever...

He's made enough mistakes to deserve some ire despite my personal belief that he'll turn out to be a quality GM.  But I get why folks question him. I just happen to believe the talent he's mined in rounds two through five is significant enough to earn him the second chance that Khan and TC have clearly already given him.  

If I were to whine about Caldwell -  my headline would be "Bradley," not Joeckel/Fowler etc. (despite the prematurity of such declarations)

I think the initial HC hire will turn out to be a far greater sin in the end. Even though it's been well established that the Khans had big influence on that hire.

I may be an underdog fan, but I have a feeling that DC will prove a benefit in the end.

All of the above!

(07-20-2017, 05:01 AM)Treestone Ice Wrote: [ -> ]Only GM in NFL history to have 5 consecutive top 5 picks. 3 are confirmed busts imo. IDC what way you try to spin it, this guy is plum terrible.

Three of his first round picks are not bust only one of them so do us a favor and please grow up and stop being over-dramatic with your irrational thoughts on Jaguar football

(07-20-2017, 05:01 AM)Treestone Ice Wrote: [ -> ]Only GM in NFL history to have 5 consecutive top 5 picks. 3 are confirmed busts imo. IDC what way you try to spin it, this guy is plum terrible.

Who are the three confirmed busts?

Are we talking Joeckel, Bortles and Fowler?

Joeckel qualifies as a bust.  Not sure if Bortles and Fowler do just yet.

Bortles had his rookie year, a second year where he threw for over 30 TDs, and a down year last year where he still had a positive TD to INT ratio.

Fowler blew out his knee 30 minutes into his first rookie minicamp and missed his first season.  Last year, his first on field action, he notched four sacks, which puts him on par with Beasley in Atlanta, who had four sacks his rookie year.  Granted, he has a lengthy and dubious off field resume, but I don't think under these circumstances you can fairly qualify him as a certified bust yet.

But your post begs a line of inquiry.

Were you to pit Gene Smith's last team against this year's Jaguars, which team would win?  Which would you consider to be the more talented roster, either comparing just the starters or 1-53?

Granted, I understand a GM's mandate is definitely NOT to build a roster that best Gene Smith's, but to best the rest of the league as well.  But what are we to make of the consensus from media observers that ours is a talented roster?

I submit despite the uneven performances of our first round picks, Caldwell has done a good job improving the roster overall.  I believe his true failure lies in three areas:  1) hiring Bradley; 2) not focusing enough on special teams (by his own admission); and not adequately addressing interior OL.

Caldwell was a rookie GM who made some rookie GM mistakes.
Partially handicapped by a coach and scheme when drafting players.

I think he has improved overall through his years. I wouldn't say he is a top 15 GM in the league... but I wouldn't say he is the worst ever.

His mid round picks have been good and some even great. He's found value in those rounds and in free agency. He has yet to put us in cap Hell, and while some will credit this to Idzik (hope I got that name right) I don't think it was all him.

A GM has a lot of responsibilities... and yes Caldwell has whiffed some but hindsight is always 20/20.
Plenty of people praised the Joker pick. Lots of people loved the Bortles pick after a promising 2015 season and he could even still prove a lot of doubters wrong. Fowler was highly touted despite what BCC and many UF haters would have you believe (also still has a slim chance to actually become something).
He still drafted AR15, Lee, Linder, Colvin, Ramsey, Jack, and a number of other shining stars or budding blossoms.
Meanwhile Caldwell brought in guys like Miller, Marks, Campbell, Jackson, (stars) and other very good stop gaps like Odrick, House, Clemons, Amukamara... none of whom put us in a bad place cap-wise.

Like I said... I'm not saying he's the best ever, or even close... but to judge the man based on hindsight on 3 or 4 picks is stupid.

Which is par for the course for the majority of you guys.

(07-20-2017, 07:04 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-20-2017, 05:01 AM)Treestone Ice Wrote: [ -> ]Only GM in NFL history to have 5 consecutive top 5 picks. 3 are confirmed busts imo. IDC what way you try to spin it, this guy is plum terrible.

Who are the three confirmed busts?

Are we talking Joeckel, Bortles and Fowler?

Joeckel qualifies as a bust.  Not sure if Bortles and Fowler do just yet.

Bortles had his rookie year, a second year where he threw for over 30 TDs, and a down year last year where he still had a positive TD to INT ratio.

Fowler blew out his knee 30 minutes into his first rookie minicamp and missed his first season.  Last year, his first on field action, he notched four sacks, which puts him on par with Beasley in Atlanta, who had four sacks his rookie year.  Granted, he has a lengthy and dubious off field resume, but I don't think under these circumstances you can fairly qualify him as a certified bust yet.

But your post begs a line of inquiry.

Were you to pit Gene Smith's last team against this year's Jaguars, which team would win?  Which would you consider to be the more talented roster, either comparing just the starters or 1-53?

Granted, I understand a GM's mandate is definitely NOT to build a roster that best Gene Smith's, but to best the rest of the league as well.  But what are we to make of the consensus from media observers that ours is a talented roster?

I submit despite the uneven performances of our first round picks, Caldwell has done a good job improving the roster overall.  I believe his true failure lies in three areas:  1) hiring Bradley; 2) not focusing enough on special teams (by his own admission); and not adequately addressing interior OL.

Fowler isn't a bust yet but man does he appear headed in that direction.

He's got the requisite lack of self awareness and mental laziness that it takes, plus he was drafted out of position at number three overall.

If he turns it around here I'll be shocked.

Really it's Bortles that doesn't belong on that list. The expectations around here for young QBs are way out of whack.

(07-20-2017, 07:38 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Really it's Bortles that doesn't belong on that list. The expectations around here for young QBs are way out of whack.

Hey, if they can't lead you to a Superbowl in their first 3 seasons, after coming out of college early, going to a torn down roster of a team.... BUST!

Let's please give it this full season before passing judgment on Bortles and Fowler.
Bortles is putting in the work, by all accounts he has spent most of the offseason correcting his form with experts and working on his footwork. Having continuity with Hackett can only help, and Hackett gets to put his own offense in. Not to mention, Blake has had next to zero support from the running game, the Jags had 8 rushing Tds last year, and Bortles was responsible for 3 of those!

As for Fowler, despite our disappointment in his off-field issues, he was still a great run stopper in his first year returning from a serious, potentially career ending injury. yes, he only created 4 sacks, but that position is not one that is learned quickly, and he had pressures that flushed the QB to Yannick for the sack. Yannick's Interception was off a Fowler tipped pass. Hearsay has it that he has also been working on his pass rush moves offsite at a camp, when not beating people up and throwing liquor in a lake, LOL.

(07-20-2017, 07:04 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-20-2017, 05:01 AM)Treestone Ice Wrote: [ -> ]Only GM in NFL history to have 5 consecutive top 5 picks. 3 are confirmed busts imo. IDC what way you try to spin it, this guy is plum terrible.

Who are the three confirmed busts?

Are we talking Joeckel, Bortles and Fowler?

Joeckel qualifies as a bust.  Not sure if Bortles and Fowler do just yet.

Bortles had his rookie year, a second year where he threw for over 30 TDs, and a down year last year where he still had a positive TD to INT ratio.

Fowler blew out his knee 30 minutes into his first rookie minicamp and missed his first season.  Last year, his first on field action, he notched four sacks, which puts him on par with Beasley in Atlanta, who had four sacks his rookie year.  Granted, he has a lengthy and dubious off field resume, but I don't think under these circumstances you can fairly qualify him as a certified bust yet.

But your post begs a line of inquiry.

Were you to pit Gene Smith's last team against this year's Jaguars, which team would win?  Which would you consider to be the more talented roster, either comparing just the starters or 1-53?

Granted, I understand a GM's mandate is definitely NOT to build a roster that best Gene Smith's, but to best the rest of the league as well.  But what are we to make of the consensus from media observers that ours is a talented roster?

I submit despite the uneven performances of our first round picks, Caldwell has done a good job improving the roster overall.  I believe his true failure lies in three areas:  1) hiring Bradley; 2) not focusing enough on special teams (by his own admission); and not adequately addressing interior OL.

Like always Bullseye you make good points.

We really do need to give Bortles and Fowler this season before we know who we have in them. If Bortles gets back to where he was late in 2015, suddenly Caldwell is a genius again. Fowler simply needs to show something this year.

As for the Joke, I can excuse Caldwell because his hands were tied. 32 out of 32 GMs would have made the same pick.