Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Tabbing 6th and 7th rounders as misses is a little ridiculous.

 

He's missed on his 1st and 2nd rd picks too, stop cherry picking

Quote:And tabing fowler as a miss when he's played half a season in his nfl career is also dumb.

 

It's early, but the only impact Fowler has made is in the unsportsmanlike conduct category, he's also been benched for a 3rd round rookie. If you want to see what a top 5 pick rookie edge rusher should look like, go watch Joey Bosa.

Bortles was a reach. no way around it.

Again...Bortles hasn't been developed properly.  That's not on Caldwell.

As someone have said, labeling 6th and 7th rounders as "misses" is kind of nit-picking. You can go through a lot of rosters and I'm sure you'll find TONS of misses in the late rounds.If I do have a criticism of DC, its that a few of his misses within the same position. What I mean by this is that, you can understand Dave passing on Ansah for Luke, because they play different positions. 

 

But since we had a need for a tackle, and we *did* draft a tackle, you would think we scouted ALL of the tackles and graded them against each other. In that regard, we missed on Luke vs Lane Johnson (PEDs and all).

 

Then, you go to Blake Bortles, and this is the big one here. We had the 3rd pick in the draft, and you can criticize him for not taking Mack (pass rusher), but if you have the first dibs at QB, and you take Blake over Carr, then you clearly "missed". What makes this worse is that we had Carr for Senior Bowl. If I remember correctly, very few people, even within the building, knew Blake was our guy. I know for sure DC was one of them. I don't recall who the other ones were. Last season, this looked to be in favor of Blake (slightly). This year? No question.

 

Last year was the "year of the running backs". Gurley, Gordon, Yeldon, Abdullah, Coleman, Duke/David Johnson, Matt Jones, Langford, Ajayi. This was one of the deepest running back class in years. Many had some serious discussions who the 3rd guy is behind Gurley and Gordon. Dave and his staff nabbed Yeldon as that guy so much so that we used a 2nd round pick. Meanwhile, David Johnson (a guy who performed real well in Senior Bowl...again) went in the 3rd round. Again, this is a big miss similar to Bortles/Carr. Similar positions, similar exposure (via Senior Bowl). How did we miss? 

 

These are the kinds of picks that makes me question Dave.

Quote:Unless that article compares Caldwell to other GMs it's pretty useless. And really subjective.

 

This.  Not to mention that criteria for what constitutes a Miss, Hit, or Replacement Level player are entirely up to one's opinion.  For instance, I'd call Lee a hit at this point, and probably Bortles Replacement Level.

is it a good article because you dont like Caldwell or a good article because it states more than just your opinion?

I think another thing worth considering, which those lists do not, is how many of those "replacement level" players were STILL direct upgrades at the position.

 

 

2013 and 2014 Free Agents should, honestly, largely be ignored.  There was no expectation for those guys to come in and create a winning franchise.  They were basically brought in to fill out the 53, fill a slot until they could be replaced by a better player.

 

Fowler - Not having a great "1st" season, but you can not call a DE a "miss" in his first season.  That's just being stupid.  He may, and I could even go so far as to say likely will, turn out to be a miss, but you can't slap that label on in 9 games.

 

Bortles, 2015 vs 2016... which is closer to the real Bortles.  2015 showed promise, 2016 was regression... how much of that is him vs the Coaching Staff?  Tough questions.

 

 

Caldwell gets a 2nd coach.  No question in my mind.  Yes, he had a "part" in retaining Gus.  I think it's pretty obvious that Shad was in his ear on that one, though, especially given Shad's insistence on keeping him through the end of the season.  He wants to show stability, and if I'm Dave, I'm honestly not looking to rock that boat w/ my boss. 

 

I honestly believe Dave and Shad have had the conversation... I believe they had it LAST year, and that Shad determined he wanted to see it through with Gus, give him the "show me" year.

 

He didn't show.

 

Gus will be gone, Caldwell will have a 2nd HC, and all eyes will be on him.  If it doesn't improve under another HC, then you have to look at Dave.

 

None of this is saying that Dave isn't part of the problem.  None of it is saying Bortles isn't part of the problem.

 

It's saying that Gus is so GLARINGLY the primary problem, that it's hard to fairly evaluate anything else until he's out of the picture.

Remember when Bortles was supposed to sit for a year...It's Henne's fault Blake sucks so bad.

Another opinion piece huh.

Quote:As someone have said, labeling 6th and 7th rounders as "misses" is kind of nit-picking. You can go through a lot of rosters and I'm sure you'll find TONS of misses in the late rounds.If I do have a criticism of DC, its that a few of his misses within the same position. What I mean by this is that, you can understand Dave passing on Ansah for Luke, because they play different positions. 

 

But since we had a need for a tackle, and we *did* draft a tackle, you would think we scouted ALL of the tackles and graded them against each other. In that regard, we missed on Luke vs Lane Johnson (PEDs and all).

 

Then, you go to Blake Bortles, and this is the big one here. We had the 3rd pick in the draft, and you can criticize him for not taking Mack (pass rusher), but if you have the first dibs at QB, and you take Blake over Carr, then you clearly "missed". What makes this worse is that we had Carr for Senior Bowl. If I remember correctly, very few people, even within the building, knew Blake was our guy. I know for sure DC was one of them. I don't recall who the other ones were. Last season, this looked to be in favor of Blake (slightly). This year? No question.

 

Last year was the "year of the running backs". Gurley, Gordon, Yeldon, Abdullah, Coleman, Duke/David Johnson, Matt Jones, Langford, Ajayi. This was one of the deepest running back class in years. Many had some serious discussions who the 3rd guy is behind Gurley and Gordon. Dave and his staff nabbed Yeldon as that guy so much so that we used a 2nd round pick. Meanwhile, David Johnson (a guy who performed real well in Senior Bowl...again) went in the 3rd round. Again, this is a big miss similar to Bortles/Carr. Similar positions, similar exposure (via Senior Bowl). How did we miss? 

 

These are the kinds of picks that makes me question Dave.

 

This is a very well-reasoned position, and I appreciate that.  I honestly believe that Dave leaned on Gus for the type of players he wanted--and if Gus coached them in the Senior Bowl, I have a huge feeling he really leaned on his analysis (which really is another knock on Dave).

 

Gus designed a scheme, and Dave found the players for it--Cyprien, Yeldon, even Bortles are probably a result of this.

 

The other factor that isn't being taken into account is player development.  It's clear at this point that our scheme puts players in position to fail quite regularly, both offensively and defensively.  Our coaches aren't helping our talent in any regard.

 

I feel like there are some very good players (Bortles and Yeldon, for example) who are not being coached well.  Hell, Bortles himself said no coach had even mentioned his throwing motion to him this year.

 

I'm willing to give Dave another coach, because frankly, over all, he's drafted pretty well IMO.

Quote:I think another thing worth considering, which those lists do not, is how many of those "replacement level" players were STILL direct upgrades at the position.



2013 and 2014 Free Agents should, honestly, largely be ignored. There was no expectation for those guys to come in and create a winning franchise. They were basically brought in to fill out the 53, fill a slot until they could be replaced by a better player.


Fowler - Not having a great "1st" season, but you can not call a DE a "miss" in his first season. That's just being stupid. He may, and I could even go so far as to say likely will, turn out to be a miss, but you can't slap that label on in 9 games.


Bortles, 2015 vs 2016... which is closer to the real Bortles. 2015 showed promise, 2016 was regression... how much of that is him vs the Coaching Staff? Tough questions.



Caldwell gets a 2nd coach. No question in my mind. Yes, he had a "part" in retaining Gus. I think it's pretty obvious that Shad was in his ear on that one, though, especially given Shad's insistence on keeping him through the end of the season. He wants to show stability, and if I'm Dave, I'm honestly not looking to rock that boat w/ my boss.


I honestly believe Dave and Shad have had the conversation... I believe they had it LAST year, and that Shad determined he wanted to see it through with Gus, give him the "show me" year.


He didn't show.


Gus will be gone, Caldwell will have a 2nd HC, and all eyes will be on him. If it doesn't improve under another HC, then you have to look at Dave.


None of this is saying that Dave isn't part of the problem. None of it is saying Bortles isn't part of the problem.


It's saying that Gus is so GLARINGLY the primary problem, that it's hard to fairly evaluate anything else until he's out of the picture.

Quote:Again...Bortles hasn't been developed properly. That's not on Caldwell.

He drafted a qb that can't throw. That's on him.

Quote:He drafted a qb that can't throw. That's on him.

 

Seemed like he did fine at UCF and last year....

Quote:Seemed like he did fine at UCF and last year....

His throwing motion was flawed even at UCF

Quote:Tabbing 6th and 7th rounders as misses is a little ridiculous.

It is, unless you're of the mindset that everyone must be fired and we must burn it down and start over.  That would account for about 5 mental marvels on this board.

Quote:His throwing motion was flawed even at UCF

 

Yes, it was, but it looked substantially better than it does this year.  Has to be coaching.

I'll be pretty shocked (maybe a little too strong of a word) if Dave is not here next year along with a new head coach.  If he fails with another coach...well then "stuff" happens.

I said it many times before and I'll say it again. THE ENTIRE TEAM HAS REGRESSED. That doesn't point to talent or lack thereof. The finger should be pointed directly at Gus. The talent is not being developed properly and players are playing out of position in this [BLEEP] scheme on both sides.


We still aren't using Julius Thomas properly. We aren't using Fowler properly. We still aren't using Jack properly. Chris Smith, who flashes everytime he plays, is inactive on a weekly basis. It took until week 8 for the Jags to start calling the back shoulder fade to Robinson again. We start Yeldon over Ivory last week when Ivory is coming fresh off a monster game etc etc.


Now sure, Caldwell deserves blame for hiring Gus but what's to say Caldwell hasn't tried to since correct the move and Khan has decided to ride out with Gus until the end of the year? We really won't know what we have on this team talent wise until a competent coaching staff is given a chance to come in and try to correct the issues.

Caldwell has been mediocre. Would care less if we fired him or not. 

 

With that said, very poorly written article. What do they teach in English class these days?