JI know everyone hates Gus and it is deserved. He was a terrible head coach. but a few free agents and a new head coach did not make this team into the team it is today in one season. We saw sighns of a dominate defense keeping us in games we should have been blown out in. and we saw an offence put up 50 against a good clots team at the time. If Gus was still the head coach we would not be where we are today. Marrone and TC brought a winning attitude and Grit. But Does Gus deserve some credit for helping to build this team to what it is. I mean we have the same DC and OC and mostly all the same coaches. Could Gus have been a good Teacher or Coordinater and a Terrible Head Coach?
Ok FLame Away !
Not only does he not get credit. He gets blame for them not being here sooner. I liked Bradley but he was a horribad head coach.
It depends on how much it was him and how much it was Dave. I know both play a role, but to how much. I would say more Dave for scouting them and Mr Kahn for allowing the money to be spent.
Of course he gets credit! He kept us drafting in the top 5 every year.
(12-28-2017, 11:06 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ]Of course he gets credit! He kept us drafting in the top 5 every year.
Bwahahahahaahaha
No. Your statement leaves me to believe that you think this team is the same makeup and system as when Gus was here. You would be wrong in so many ways. If he couldn't make it work over 4 seasons, he doesn't deserve credit for a culture change, staff changes, scheme changes, etc.
(12-28-2017, 11:06 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ]Of course he gets credit! He kept us drafting in the top 5 every year.
I don’t know if I can like this enough. It’s so true.
Gus gets nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Gus goes away and we go from 3-13 to winning the division, so I'd say no, Gus gets no credit. Dave gets the credit.
(12-28-2017, 11:08 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]No. Your statement leaves me to believe that you think this team is the same makeup and system as when Gus was here. You would be wrong in so many ways. If he couldn't make it work over 4 seasons, he doesn't deserve credit for a culture change, staff changes, scheme changes, etc.
The Team is the same the scheme may change but the coaches are the same. Look at the brownies they draft in top 5 every year and replace the coach every 3 years and still are struggling to win a game. My point was did Gus take some of the younger guys we drafted in those early rounds and teach them good fundamentals without teaching them how to win, so when a better coach who takes those players who have good fundamentals and teaches them how to win and dominate. Just thinking if Gus had not got these players ready to be great we would just be in the same boat as the brownies with terrible players and coaches.
(12-28-2017, 11:14 AM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2017, 11:08 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]No. Your statement leaves me to believe that you think this team is the same makeup and system as when Gus was here. You would be wrong in so many ways. If he couldn't make it work over 4 seasons, he doesn't deserve credit for a culture change, staff changes, scheme changes, etc.
The Team is the same the scheme may change but the coaches are the same. Look at the brownies they draft in top 5 every year and replace the coach every 3 years and still are struggling to win a game. My point was did Gus take some of the younger guys we drafted in those early rounds and teach them good fundamentals without teaching them how to win, so when a better coach who takes those players who have good fundamentals and teaches them how to win and dominate. Just thinking if Gus had not got these players ready to be great we would just be in the same boat as the brownies with terrible players and coaches.
No, not all of the coaches are the same. In fact, some have even moved into different positions. If Gus was so great at teaching, how can you explain the instant growth as soon as he departs? Dave set the foundation. Tom and Marrone have molded the team into what we are seeing.
I'll say this...
He deserves the credit for being the sacrificial lamb for Caldwell's trial run.
Now I'm not defending Gus, his coaching ability, or anything like that.
But he was handed a roster stripped of every last ounce of talent, gutted. Given Blaine Gabbert/Chad Henne/and Blake's first 3 seasons at QB. Caldwell missed a lot more than he hit in FA early on (partially because the real good FAs weren't coming to sadsonville)
But we saw the talent this team had last year, Gus should have been able to do something with it, and after a few seasons we saw his in game managing was no bueno.
But dude fell on a sword for this franchise. He kept guys believing until that final year. He was the perfect coach for the insanely difficult rebuild Caldwell decided to pursue.
I gotta give him credit for that.
But as for the team? Nah... if anything, like mentioned above by someone, he probably held back guys by not pushing hard enough. And switching coordinators so often screams "I'm passing the buck (blame) to someone else" while also saying "I don't know how to assemble a good staff"
This guy screwed it up from top to bottom. He snapped defeat out of the jaws of victory on so many occasions. He lost to journeyman and rookie quarterbacks over and over. He couldn't win in September and couldn't win with an extra week of planning during bye weeks. He couldn't log a string of victories or build momentum. He provided no vision or leadership to the most important position on the team.
Gus gets zero and less than zero credit. We have made a bunch of mistakes over the history of this franchise and hiring him may well be the number 2 worst decision behind Gene Smith's promotion.
(12-28-2017, 11:04 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Not only does he not get credit. He gets blame for them not being here sooner. I liked Bradley but he was a horribad head coach.
He was a terrible head coach. But, to be fair:
The defense wasn't near what it is this season.
Absent last year:
Bouye
Church ("Bad Angle" Cyprien was there)
Campbell
Dareus
Rookies last year:
Ramsey, Jack, Yannick, Fowler (1st year he played)
The offense was different too:
Cam Robinson wasn't there
Cann was rookie
Linder was hurt
LF wasn't there
*And, Bortles was still struggling with the system, accuracy, and decision making.
BB has really improved with all that from about the mid-point of this season and forward.
Kicking:
Jason Myers (Meyers? sp) was continually missing crucial kicks.
Lambo is now drilling them.
Anyway, yes, Bradley was a bad coach. But last year's team was completely different, IMO. Comparing this year's team to last year's is almost like comparing apples to oranges.
The defense was turning the corner last year, but I don't think Coughlin and as a result Campbell comes here last off season if Gus is still the head coach today. I'm not sure if we would have still landed Bouye or Church, but this defense went from moving into the "good" category at the end of last year to the "great" category with the contributions by those three free agents. If Gus is here then Campbell and maybe Bouye and Church aren't on this roster. If that were the case, I think we'd probably be around 6-9 heading into this week 17 game and fans would be beside themselves with how upset at Bradley and the organization they'd have to be at this point with another losing season assured.
Honestly it all boils down to Blake. If you think his growing game field mechanics and improvement is due to Marrone and the new system. Then no.
If you believe Blake's improvements have more to do with being in the same system for longer and needed the time to develop correctly. Then yes.
At the end of the day. If the QB is not efficient. Can't score points. Then doesn't matter how good the D is. Won't score much.
In my opinion we are seeing both Blaine and Blake with new coaches and systems and both succeeding.
So common sense says
A. Gus wasn't a good HC
B. They didn't buy into his system
C. Qbs don't stink then preform well just cause
(12-28-2017, 11:33 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]The defense was turning the corner last year, but I don't think Coughlin and as a result Campbell comes here last off season if Gus is still the head coach today. I'm not sure if we would have still landed Bouye or Church, but this defense went from moving into the "good" category at the end of last year to the "great" category with the contributions by those three free agents. If Gus is here then Campbell and maybe Bouye and Church aren't on this roster. If that were the case, I think we'd probably be around 6-9 heading into this week 17 game and fans would be beside themselves with how upset at Bradley and the organization they'd have to be at this point with another losing season assured.
That's a fair assumption about those players coming here or not.
However, the fact is with the defense is that 8 of the 11 key players weren't even on the team or were just learning the game as a rookie last season.
That is an incredible difference.
And 3 of this year's key offensive players (LF, Robinson, Linder) weren't here or playing.
This team is completely different from last season's in both roster AND experience.
It just is.
(12-28-2017, 11:06 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ]Of course he gets credit! He kept us drafting in the top 5 every year.
You beat me to it.
(12-28-2017, 11:14 AM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2017, 11:08 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]No. Your statement leaves me to believe that you think this team is the same makeup and system as when Gus was here. You would be wrong in so many ways. If he couldn't make it work over 4 seasons, he doesn't deserve credit for a culture change, staff changes, scheme changes, etc.
My point was did Gus take some of the younger guys we drafted in those early rounds and teach them good fundamentals without teaching them how to win, so when a better coach who takes those players who have good fundamentals and teaches them how to win and dominate.
Except that Gus did the exact opposite. Maybe his failure wasn't about fundamentals per se, but about attitude. In any case he was a negative factor in player development.
On defense, only a few interior defensive linemen improved from year 1 to year 2 with the team (Abry Jones and Marks). The DBs in particular never improved. Colvin is no better than he was in 2014. Cyprien and Evans never improved. McCray was a promising CB who dropped off a cliff. Telvin is a great LB, but he was already a great LB in 2014; IIRC he led the league in tackles the last few weeks that year. Fowler was considered a bust in his second year under Gus. The defensive free agents also declined in their second season under Gus, notably Odrick and House.
On offense the WRs and Bortles improved in their second year under Gus (and then mostly slumped in year 3), but the OL, RBs, and TEs didn't. Bowanko was a promising rookie. Cann was much better as a rookie than he was last year. Beadles was a Pro Bowler before Gus, and again played well last week. Linder is good, but he was very good in 2014. Joeckel ... well maybe he wasn't Gus' fault, but maybe he was.
We needed him for the beginning of the rebuild. Too many young players to go into win now mode. So Gus kept it about development. Problem is he never went into win now mode. Just hung on to him a year too long.
(12-28-2017, 11:33 AM)Teal Time Radio Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly it all boils down to Blake. If you think his growing game field mechanics and improvement is due to Marrone and the new system. Then no.
If you believe Blake's improvements have more to do with being in the same system for longer and needed the time to develop correctly. Then yes.
At the end of the day. If the QB is not efficient. Can't score points. Then doesn't matter how good the D is. Won't score much.
In my opinion we are seeing both Blaine and Blake with new coaches and systems and both succeeding.
So common sense says
A. Gus wasn't a good HC
B. They didn't buy into his system
C. Qbs don't stink then preform well just cause
Gabbert didn't succeed. lol He's been benched for Drew Stanton.
In 5 starts he went 2-3
comp% 55.6
yards 1,086
TDs 6
INTs 6
QBR 71.9
meh