Here are the facts: A lot of Buffalo fans will be in Jax on Sunday (I heard 25% ticket sales in New York State alone). Buffalo had way more fans in London (I was there. And the game itself had the 2nd most fans in attendance for the London series. Patriots being #1). The Bills are 100% not leaving Buffalo - that's not even a valid conversation. Hell - the Jags probably won't leave, either. They still have 12 years on their lease in Jax from what I have read. You can call this post delusional - but it's all true. #GoBills
If Buffalo continues to trend toward being the next venue for an I Am Legend sequel, the Bills will leave eventually. #StraightFacts
(01-05-2018, 12:11 PM)UCF Knight Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 10:35 AM)GrizzlyDrizzy Wrote: [ -> ]Don't even compare Jax to Buffalo. Buffalo might not be able to use the beaches in the winter but they have Niagara falls, Clifton hill and Canada 10 minutes from the city. Their food destroys anything in Florida. Their fans are better. Their hockey fans are more passionate. Jacksonville cannot touch Buffalo. I don't know too well of the job market in Jax but that might be the only thing that is better but probably not since Buffalo fans just bought all Jaguars playoff tickets 200% market value to Jags fans who needed the money. Ridiculous. Jacksonville might not even be able to touch Cleveland to be honest. #LondonJaguars2030 #Tarps #BillsMafiaTakeover #ClevelandOverJax
This last post is why nobody respects you here or takes a thing you say as reality.
(01-05-2018, 04:33 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]If Buffalo continues to trend toward being the next venue for an I Am Legend sequel, the Bills will leave eventually. #StraightFacts
Whenever I hear "Florida" - I think of humidity, bath salts and vote re-counts. NY > FL.
Cleveland > Florida
Some random little town in Iowa > Florida
(01-05-2018, 04:36 PM)GrizzlyDrizzy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 12:11 PM)UCF Knight Wrote: [ -> ]This last post is why nobody respects you here or takes a thing you say as reality.
(01-05-2018, 04:33 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]If Buffalo continues to trend toward being the next venue for an I Am Legend sequel, the Bills will leave eventually. #StraightFacts
Whenever I hear "Florida" - I think of humidity, bath salts and vote re-counts. NY > FL.
Cleveland > Florida
Some random little town in Iowa > Florida
Wow.... That's some really weak smack right there. I hope your team has more game than you do. If not, the Jags will simply get bored.
I've been all over the world. Jacksonville is incredibly hard to beat, all things considered. You're talking south Florida smack, and don't even realize it.
Weak, bro..............
(01-05-2018, 04:04 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 03:54 PM)Chazz Wrote: [ -> ]You guys sell out all your games? So why do they tarp off the seats?
The tarps are there because unlike Buffalo, we’ve figured out that the stadium was too big for the market. Oddly enough, if you look at the stats for this season, Buffalo shows they were at 95.5% capacity for 2017. Care to guess what Jacksonville’s number was? 95.5%. Any other meaningless smack you want to run here before you crank up the Def Leppard in the Camaro cassette deck?
Wait, so what you're saying is that Buffalo, a dying community, draws more people to games than the booming metropolis of Jacksonville, despite the fact that you guys play in great weather, and we play in the snow? That your market, though booming, and though Buffalo's is dying, can't draw enough people to fill a smaller stadium? Who cares about percentages? Look at actual numbers. You keep trying to explain it away, despite the facts. And the points you're making don't seem to help.
The Bills need to stay in Buffalo. They have great fans and an extremely rich history in the NFL (even if their legendary RB murdered 2 people). In any event, the Raiders leaving Oakland is a travesty and it would be the same if the Bills left Buffalo.
(01-05-2018, 04:29 PM)GrizzlyDrizzy Wrote: [ -> ]Here are the facts: A lot of Buffalo fans will be in Jax on Sunday (I heard 25% ticket sales in New York State alone). Buffalo had way more fans in London (I was there. And the game itself had the 2nd most fans in attendance for the London series. Patriots being #1).
If you're going to quote facts then at least get them straight: The Bills-Jags game in London in 2015 is not the #2 game in the International Series nor are the Pats #1. The highest attendance for a London game is 84,592 for (drumroll please) this year's Jaguars game against the Ravens. The 2015 game against the Bills is down at #5.
Of course actual attendance for the London games is entirely moot of course because they sell out stadium each and every time with the number of tickets only limited by how many of the seats they cover at field level. With the exception of the very first London game the attendance at Wembley has varied by no more than 1,300 or about 1.5% of the roughly 84,500 seat capacity of Wembley Stadium.
(01-05-2018, 04:42 PM)Chazz Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 04:04 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]The tarps are there because unlike Buffalo, we’ve figured out that the stadium was too big for the market. Oddly enough, if you look at the stats for this season, Buffalo shows they were at 95.5% capacity for 2017. Care to guess what Jacksonville’s number was? 95.5%. Any other meaningless smack you want to run here before you crank up the Def Leppard in the Camaro cassette deck?
Wait, so what you're saying is that Buffalo, a dying community, draws more people to games than the booming metropolis of Jacksonville, despite the fact that you guys play in great weather, and we play in the snow? That your market, though booming, and though Buffalo's is dying, can't draw enough people to fill a smaller stadium? Who cares about percentages? Look at actual numbers. You keep trying to explain it away, despite the facts. And the points you're making don't seem to help.
http://bfy.tw/Fte1 
Our stadium is actually a draw for multiple venues, many drawing over 100K people from all over the country. You may get a singly paltry NFL game for the winter classic every decade or so.
Weak, uneducated argument.
(01-05-2018, 04:49 PM)Dakota Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 04:42 PM)Chazz Wrote: [ -> ]Wait, so what you're saying is that Buffalo, a dying community, draws more people to games than the booming metropolis of Jacksonville, despite the fact that you guys play in great weather, and we play in the snow? That your market, though booming, and though Buffalo's is dying, can't draw enough people to fill a smaller stadium? Who cares about percentages? Look at actual numbers. You keep trying to explain it away, despite the facts. And the points you're making don't seem to help.
http://bfy.tw/Fte1
Our stadium is actually a draw for multiple venues, many drawing over 100K people from all over the country. You may get a singly paltry NFL game for the winter classic every decade or so.
Weak, uneducated argument.
Hmm, changing the argument to things that have nothing to do with the NFL. Great strategy!
(01-05-2018, 04:53 PM)Chazz Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 04:49 PM)Dakota Wrote: [ -> ] http://bfy.tw/Fte1
Our stadium is actually a draw for multiple venues, many drawing over 100K people from all over the country. You may get a singly paltry NFL game for the winter classic every decade or so.
Weak, uneducated argument.
Hmm, changing the argument to things that have nothing to do with the NFL. Great strategy!
Actually it has a huge amount to do with the 'argument'. I'm guessing you have no idea why the stadium was the left the size it was. The Jaguars knew from the very beginning (1995) that it was oversized for the market.
I love when the uneducated come in here spouting “facts” to us about our stadium and city as trash talk. So foolish.
(01-05-2018, 04:33 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]If Buffalo continues to trend toward being the next venue for an I Am Legend sequel, the Bills will leave eventually. #StraightFacts
I’d be happy to book that bet for you. I’ll give you 1,000 to 1.
Also, the population of millenials in the last decade has grown by 10%. I am just on the outside of this demographic and have been gone for over a decade. That’s what everyone in my generation did. It isn’t like that anymore. Buffalo is actually heading in the right direction. Housing prices are as high as they have ever been and there is development everywhere. A lot of it is actually related to the Pegula’s. If you want To learn more so that you don’t sound ignorant next time google them. Google the Harborcenter or Pegula Sports and entertainment. Hopefully you learned something today.
(01-05-2018, 04:56 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 04:53 PM)Chazz Wrote: [ -> ]Hmm, changing the argument to things that have nothing to do with the NFL. Great strategy!
Actually it has a huge amount to do with the 'argument'. I'm guessing you have no idea why the stadium was the left the size it was. The Jaguars knew from the very beginning (1995) that it was oversized for the market.
Isn't the Jacksonville market way bigger than the Bills market?
Edit:
Pro Sports TV Markets
The Jags market IS bigger than the Bills market.
(01-05-2018, 04:36 PM)GrizzlyDrizzy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 12:11 PM)UCF Knight Wrote: [ -> ]This last post is why nobody respects you here or takes a thing you say as reality.
(01-05-2018, 04:33 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]If Buffalo continues to trend toward being the next venue for an I Am Legend sequel, the Bills will leave eventually. #StraightFacts
Whenever I hear "Florida" - I think of humidity, bath salts and vote re-counts. NY > FL.
Cleveland > Florida
Some random little town in Iowa > Florida
Whenever I hear "Buffalo" - I think of women with a lot of body hair, a town full of douchecopters, and a football team that rivals Cleveland as a place draftees pray to god they don't get drafted to. I've heard of people going to Buffalo to see their team take on the Bills. I've never heard anyone say "You know what? I'm gonna vacation in Buffalo this year."
(01-05-2018, 05:22 PM)Chazz Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 04:56 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Actually it has a huge amount to do with the 'argument'. I'm guessing you have no idea why the stadium was the left the size it was. The Jaguars knew from the very beginning (1995) that it was oversized for the market.
Isn't the Jacksonville market way bigger than the Bills market?
Jacksonville metropolitan area: ~1.48 million
Buffalo–Niagara Falls metropolitan area: ~1.14 million.
Buffalo metro area including Greater Toronto: ~7.07 million.
(01-05-2018, 05:22 PM)Chazz Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 04:56 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Actually it has a huge amount to do with the 'argument'. I'm guessing you have no idea why the stadium was the left the size it was. The Jaguars knew from the very beginning (1995) that it was oversized for the market.
Isn't the Jacksonville market way bigger than the Bills market?
Edit: Pro Sports TV Markets
The Jags market IS bigger than the Bills market.
TV markets are calculated from the population of the county a team is in and the counties directly bordering the "home" county. So for Buffalo that includes the counties of Erie, Niagara, Genesee, Wyoming, Cattaraugus, and Chautauqua. It doesn't include Monroe County or anything from Canada even though a significant portion of Bills fans are from those areas.
(01-05-2018, 05:05 PM)Bills Guy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 04:33 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]If Buffalo continues to trend toward being the next venue for an I Am Legend sequel, the Bills will leave eventually. #StraightFacts
I’d be happy to book that bet for you. I’ll give you 1,000 to 1.
Also, the population of millenials in the last decade has grown by 10%. I am just on the outside of this demographic and have been gone for over a decade. That’s what everyone in my generation did. It isn’t like that anymore. Buffalo is actually heading in the right direction. Housing prices are as high as they have ever been and there is development everywhere. A lot of it is actually related to the Pegula’s. If you want To learn more so that you don’t sound ignorant next time google them. Google the Harborcenter or Pegula Sports and entertainment. Hopefully you learned something today.
I don't need any of that. All I need to see is despite the millennial growth, the city is still losing in net population year over year. Ignorant is ignoring that fact and claiming everything is rosey. If the Pegulas, whom I'm sure are committed to Buffalo every bit as much as you say, ever face a choice of staying and not filling the stadium or moving and being profitable, they're either going to move or sell to someone who will. I'm not saying it's happening in 5 years, but if you go out on a long enough time line and follow the population trend, the team won't be there at some point unless something drastically changes. Also, how many of those new millennials are loyal to the Bills and the city of Buffalo and how many are just there because their job took them there?
(01-05-2018, 05:37 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 05:05 PM)Bills Guy Wrote: [ -> ]I’d be happy to book that bet for you. I’ll give you 1,000 to 1.
Also, the population of millenials in the last decade has grown by 10%. I am just on the outside of this demographic and have been gone for over a decade. That’s what everyone in my generation did. It isn’t like that anymore. Buffalo is actually heading in the right direction. Housing prices are as high as they have ever been and there is development everywhere. A lot of it is actually related to the Pegula’s. If you want To learn more so that you don’t sound ignorant next time google them. Google the Harborcenter or Pegula Sports and entertainment. Hopefully you learned something today.
I don't need any of that. All I need to see is despite the millennial growth, the city is still losing in net population year over year. Ignorant is ignoring that fact and claiming everything is rosey. If the Pegulas, whom I'm sure are committed to Buffalo every bit as much as you say, ever face a choice of staying and not filling the stadium or moving and being profitable, they're either going to move or sell to someone who will. I'm not saying it's happening in 5 years, but if you go out on a long enough time line and follow the population trend, the team won't be there at some point unless something drastically changes. Also, how many of those new millennials are loyal to the Bills and the city of Buffalo and how many are just there because their job took them there?
A couple of things, the overwhelming majority of those people are from Buffalo originally. We all used to go away to college and never come back. Now, they are coming back. The net population is declining by like 1% but that is old people dying off and now young people are starting families. This is all within the last decade. It isn’t all heading in the right direction.
The Bills will never be in jeopardy of moving. The fan base is extremely loyal as is the ownership. He paid $1.4B in cash for the team. He hasn’t asked for a dime. He just put $25M into the clubs of his own money. This isn’t typical ownership. The ownership mirrors the fan base. He isn’t a fan first. That doesn’t mean that he’s will revolutionize ownership. Most people agree that he isn’t terribly bright. He owned a bunch of land and they found oil. With that being said you won’t ever see a situation where the team moves. This wasn’t as much of a business investment as it was a civic investment. As he said when he bought the Sabres, “If I want to make money I’ll drill another well.”
The offer stands though at 1,000 to 1.
(01-05-2018, 05:58 PM)Bills Guy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 05:37 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]I don't need any of that. All I need to see is despite the millennial growth, the city is still losing in net population year over year. Ignorant is ignoring that fact and claiming everything is rosey. If the Pegulas, whom I'm sure are committed to Buffalo every bit as much as you say, ever face a choice of staying and not filling the stadium or moving and being profitable, they're either going to move or sell to someone who will. I'm not saying it's happening in 5 years, but if you go out on a long enough time line and follow the population trend, the team won't be there at some point unless something drastically changes. Also, how many of those new millennials are loyal to the Bills and the city of Buffalo and how many are just there because their job took them there?
A couple of things, the overwhelming majority of those people are from Buffalo originally. We all used to go away to college and never come back. Now, they are coming back. The net population is declining by like 1% but that is old people dying off and now young people are starting families. This is all within the last decade. It is all heading in the right direction.
The Bills will never be in jeopardy of moving. The fan base is extremely loyal as is the ownership. He paid $1.4B in cash for the team. He hasn’t asked for a dime. He just put $25M into the clubs of his own money. This isn’t typical ownership. The ownership mirrors the fan base. He isn’t a fan first. That doesn’t mean that he’s will revolutionize ownership. Most people agree that he isn’t terribly bright. He owned a bunch of land and they found oil. With that being said you won’t ever see a situation where the team moves. This wasn’t as much of a business investment as it was a civic investment. As he said when he bought the Sabres, “If I want to make money I’ll drill another well.”
The offer stands though at 1,000 to 1.
(01-05-2018, 05:34 PM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2018, 05:22 PM)Chazz Wrote: [ -> ]Isn't the Jacksonville market way bigger than the Bills market?
Edit: Pro Sports TV Markets
The Jags market IS bigger than the Bills market.
TV markets are calculated from the population of the county a team is in and the counties directly bordering the "home" county. So for Buffalo that includes the counties of Erie, Niagara, Genesee, Wyoming, Cattaraugus, and Chautauqua. It doesn't include Monroe County or anything from Canada even though a significant portion of Bills are from those areas.
When people spout off pure numbers, it shows how clueless they are.
1) How long has Buffalo had a team? Jacksonville? Most people that I know had already formed allegiances with teams long before the Jaguars had a team. I'm not from Jacksonville. I've only been here since 1991 and it's more common to meet somebody who has, or whose family has, relocated.
2) How many people migrate
to Buffalo? Guess where the majority of the people that migrate to Florida come from? New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania...cold climates. So these people that migrate to Jacksonville are now automatically in the TV market. Does that immediately make them Jaguars' fans? I'm sure Chazz and all of his buddies would immediately become Jaguars' fans...right? Do you have any idea what percentage of people here are transplants?
3) How many major military bases does Buffalo have? I honestly don't know. These citizens are generally transient. So guess what, they have other teams that they root for, or are not in town long enough.
4) And I laugh when I see that Orlando is considered part of the TV market. For one, I see many Orlando residents on this very board that complain that they can't get the Jaguars down there. Plus, Orlando is over 100 miles from Jacksonville.