Hi guys,
Best of luck to all of you Jags fans. It is definitely fun to have your team in it this late in the season. We up here in New England have been spoiled. I for one am quite nervous about this game. I think you guys match up very well with us. I think a lot of people get caught up in average statistics and other stuff, but ultimately it's about specific match ups.
As someone who hasn't watched a ton of Jaguars games this year, I have a question regarding your pass rush. You obviously have talented guys at all levels, and I believe I'm right in saying that you tend not to blitz too much, which makes you dangerous if you get pressure with just 4. I was looking through the impressive sack stats on you guys and was struck by the fact that 28 of your 55 regular season sacks came against 2 teams, the Texans and the Colts. I'm really not trying to cherry pick, but that is quite incredible. The remaining 12 games you guys had 27 sacks, or 2.25 per game. That rate is actually slightly below average for the league. So real question, as you guys have watched throughout the year, do feel the pass rush is consistent? I get that it's good, I'm not challenge that. I'm just wondering if you guys feel like it shows up every game.
Good luck to all of you tomorrow. Nothing like these games!
(01-20-2018, 02:34 PM)Darth Hoodie Wrote: [ -> ]Hi guys,
Best of luck to all of you Jags fans. It is definitely fun to have your team in it this late in the season. We up here in New England have been spoiled. I for one am quite nervous about this game. I think you guys match up very well with us. I think a lot of people get caught up in average statistics and other stuff, but ultimately it's about specific match ups.
As someone who hasn't watched a ton of Jaguars games this year, I have a question regarding your pass rush. You obviously have talented guys at all levels, and I believe I'm right in saying that you tend not to blitz too much, which makes you dangerous if you get pressure with just 4. I was looking through the impressive sack stats on you guys and was struck by the fact that 28 of your 55 regular season sacks came against 2 teams, the Texans and the Colts. I'm really not trying to cherry pick, but that is quite incredible. The remaining 12 games you guys had 27 sacks, or 2.25 per game. That rate is actually slightly below average for the league. So real question, as you guys have watched throughout the year, do feel the pass rush is consistent? I get that it's good, I'm not challenge that. I'm just wondering if you guys feel like it shows up every game.
Good luck to all of you tomorrow. Nothing like these games!
Much like NE, they approach each opponent with a different gameplan. QBs who are mobile or who tend to improvise well when flushed from the pocket will typically see more "containment" than pressure. That accounts for a handful of those games with fewer sacks.
More importantly - what you are ignoring is the number of pressures and forced errors made by opposing quarterbacks even if they were only sacked 3 times instead of 10.
Is the pass rush as consistent against better O-Lines? Of course not. Does it still negatively affect most QBs behind the better O-Lines it's faced? Absolutely.
Where do you rank your O-Line on a league wide spectrum?
(01-20-2018, 02:34 PM)Darth Hoodie Wrote: [ -> ]Hi guys,
Best of luck to all of you Jags fans. It is definitely fun to have your team in it this late in the season. We up here in New England have been spoiled. I for one am quite nervous about this game. I think you guys match up very well with us. I think a lot of people get caught up in average statistics and other stuff, but ultimately it's about specific match ups.
As someone who hasn't watched a ton of Jaguars games this year, I have a question regarding your pass rush. You obviously have talented guys at all levels, and I believe I'm right in saying that you tend not to blitz too much, which makes you dangerous if you get pressure with just 4. I was looking through the impressive sack stats on you guys and was struck by the fact that 28 of your 55 regular season sacks came against 2 teams, the Texans and the Colts. I'm really not trying to cherry pick, but that is quite incredible. The remaining 12 games you guys had 27 sacks, or 2.25 per game. That rate is actually slightly below average for the league. So real question, as you guys have watched throughout the year, do feel the pass rush is consistent? I get that it's good, I'm not challenge that. I'm just wondering if you guys feel like it shows up every game.
Good luck to all of you tomorrow. Nothing like these games!
What is your definition of "shows up?"
Do pressures count? Low scores? We held Flacco and the Ravens to 7 points. We held Rivers and the Bolts below their season averages. We got a ton of pressure on Russell Wilson but few sacks.
The pass rush is very consistent with just 4. Some numbers may have been inflated by certain games, but the pressure is consistent. As you're aware, sacks are not the only stat of a good pass rush. For instance, we had 20 QB pressures against Buffalo and against Pittsburgh and rarely blitzed. I think we blitzed Ben like twice.
So even though it didn't register in the sack chart, the pressure was there all day causing forced throws, decisions, etc. And that's against a star studded Steelers OL.
With Brady, it's not necessarily about hitting him (which helps) but just that constant pressure collapsing the pocket, which we can do very well with 4.
Look at Ngakoue for example, 12 sacks on the season which is awesome, but he also had 28 QB hits and a lot more pressures as well.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
These guys rank NE O-line as #1 in Run Blocking and #14 in Pass Blocking. So I would say middle of the pack pass blocking and well above average overall. Feels about right.
For years, everyone has overrated the Pats O-line. Brady is the one who makes them look good....then the playoffs start and it's like they forgot all they learned and, all too often, Brady gets swamped.
The main difference between the Pats OL and the rest, is Brady's release time and the priceless value of having probably the best O-line coach in the NFL, Dante Scarnecchia.
The man takes turds and turns them into guys who are good at their jobs and who work well together. That's been one of the secrets to the Pats success, having saved millions every season on the OL.
Where do they rank? A lot higher than the same guys would on any other team. Just a bunch of hardworking Joes.
And yes, agreed, sacks are not the definitive statistic. I'd say you guys have answered my question. Sounds like even when the sack totals aren't there, the D-line is disruptive. If it can get push up the middle and get in Brady's face, you guys will have a good day. Good luck to you all.
I think the other posters addressed most of the reasons why we consider our pass rush succesful. I know most fans feel this way, but I’ve never seen lineman held like Malik Jackson and Yannick Ngakoue are held. Generally, a certain degree of holding happens on every play. It just seems that, because we’re so successful, they allow opposing teams to get away with some of the less egregious holds.
Maybe it’s my teal-colored glasses.
(01-20-2018, 03:08 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]I think the other posters addressed most of the reasons why we consider our pass rush succesful. I know most fans feel this way, but I’ve never seen lineman held like Malik Jackson and Yannick Ngakoue are held. Generally, a certain degree of holding happens on every play. It just seems that, because we’re so successful, they allow opposing teams to get away with some of the less egregious holds.
Maybe it’s my teal-colored glasses.
It's not.
The steelers got away with murder holding Campbell and Ngakoue. No reason to think the pats won't do the same.
I'm expecting us to be in a lot of 21, 12, and 22 personnel packages to help w the pass rush. Our RBs, particularly White and Lewis are excellent in protection, and Gronk is a beast of course. As great a pass catcher as he is, he might be an even better blocker. It will be quite the chess match.
(01-20-2018, 03:23 PM)Darth Hoodie Wrote: [ -> ]I'm expecting us to be in a lot of 21, 12, and 22 personnel packages to help w the pass rush. Our RBs, particularly White and Lewis are excellent in protection, and Gronk is a beast of course. As great a pass catcher as he is, he might be an even better blocker. It will be quite the chess match.
If we can force you to keep Gronk in to block, I think that plays into Jax hand a bit. It essentially keeps your best receiver tied up.
Agreed. They may use him a bit to chip and then release. In the run game he's devastating. I think you guys fare best against 11 personnel with your cover corners and smaller but fast LBs. I think our heavier packages will give you guys the most trouble. Will be interesting.
I would say don’t look at the sacks.
There is a pff stat somewhere that the jaguar get a sack, pressure of hit like 31% percent of the time. So that means every 1 out of 3 plays we are affecting the qb. The sacks are nice but we are built to get the qb off their spot to effect their throw. Of target passes are what we try to generate. The sacks and strip fumbles are just extra The real strength of this defense is the secondary. They can legit cover for about 5-6 seconds.
(01-20-2018, 02:51 PM)Tailgater Wrote: [ -> ]For years, everyone has overrated the Pats O-line. Brady is the one who makes them look good....then the playoffs start and it's like they forgot all they learned and, all too often, Brady gets swamped.
The main difference between the Pats OL and the rest, is Brady's release time and the priceless value of having probably the best O-line coach in the NFL, Dante Scarnecchia.
The man takes turds and turns them into guys who are good at their jobs and who work well together. That's been one of the secrets to the Pats success, having saved millions every season on the OL.
Where do they rank? A lot higher than the same guys would on any other team. Just a bunch of hardworking Joes.
This is a great point, Scarnecchia has always been the kind of hidden gem in the Pats success. If i remember rightly, he left the Pats for a while, he maybe retired, but his return has also come at the same time the Pats have been able to reach the top of the mountain again.
Now tomorrow, the Pats may be playing their 3rd string RT, Fleming and if he's one on one with Calais, then he is in serious trouble. Not only is Campbell a monster, he's 6'8, but he's also a savy vet who knows how to exploit younger guys. If he does play i expect us to hit Fleming with Campbell and Fowler (using his speed) to make the Pats either use a TE/FB for help or use Shaq Mason as help, in which case that's when i throw everything at Solder at LT. I think that's what we need to do, play smart, try and keep the O line unsettled and thinking too much if that makes sense. Solder has been a bit down lately and i think Ngakoue is going to give him a challenge all day.
One thing i do wonder for Pats fans, it looks like McDaniels and Patricia could be gone soon, who do you think will replace them and how much of an impact do you think it will have for the Pats next year?
Fleming at RT is a huge concern for me. If he doesn't get help, brady won't have 2.5 seconds and he'll take a beating. I expect the Pats to run that way a bunch to slow down the rush.
Solder has returned to form the last couple months. Not too worried about him. He was horrible early in the season, likely paying more attention to his son, who's fighting cancer.
Yannick will get around him at times for sure, hopefully not enough to stop them cold.
As to replacing the OC / DC? Probably promote from within. BB has had great success doing that in the past. If the LB coach doesn't get a HC gig as rumored, he's the favorite to take over, but probably won't get the title of DC until 2019.
Also, it's likely BB brings in Greg Schiano as asst HC and help Flores with the defense.
I was hoping O'Brien got fired from TX and came back as OC. No luck there. Then Dabol was hired by the Bills. 2 strikes. Trying to think of the next guy up but nobody comes to mind.
(01-21-2018, 12:33 AM)Tailgater Wrote: [ -> ]Fleming at RT is a huge concern for me. If he doesn't get help, brady won't have 2.5 seconds and he'll take a beating. I expect the Pats to run that way a bunch to slow down the rush.
Solder has returned to form the last couple months. Not too worried about him. He was horrible early in the season, likely paying more attention to his son, who's fighting cancer.
Yannick will get around him at times for sure, hopefully not enough to stop them cold.
As to replacing the OC / DC? Probably promote from within. BB has had great success doing that in the past. If the LB coach doesn't get a HC gig as rumored, he's the favorite to take over, but probably won't get the title of DC until 2019.
Also, it's likely BB brings in Greg Schiano as asst HC and help Flores with the defense.
I was hoping O'Brien got fired from TX and came back as OC. No luck there. Then Dabol was hired by the Bills. 2 strikes. Trying to think of the next guy up but nobody comes to mind.
That does seem to be the curse of having Belichick, his co-ordinators and staff are always going to be prized away in some hope they have the 'magic'. There's only so many guys who can make that step up. It's one thing i do love about the Parcells Graduates, they are great at finding coaches and bringing ex-players in as coaches and just clicking and they just go. I'd have guessed that the Pats would look more internal, that just seems your way and it works but i don't see you guys scrabbling at coaches like the others. I think most teams would struggle losing both OC and DC in the same year but with Belichick and the way the Pats are run, i think most of the kinks would be worked out by training camp.
Solder has been a great for New England. Just one of those guys who is always there. Don't know how many more seasons he'll be playing but he's a vet, he's seen a trick or two. I think Yannick will be ready for tomorrow. He's had 7 FF for the season, that's a great stat, but he's completely unknown to the media, most can't even say his name, he feels disrespected missing out on the Pro Bowl, i just see a stage for him. Hopefully, well for me, he takes it.
Truly heartbreaking about Solder's son.
I think the pass rush is decent in every game, and great in other games. The pass rush really is good when it's combined against inexperienced QBs. I don't think Tom Brady will have much to worry about actually, especially if he's throwing quick short passes. If the jags go up and Tom is forced to throw a lot more deeper passes... with how good this defense covers I think the pass rush will get to him.
So basically I think our pass rush is definitely capable of getting to Brady but I think moreso in the right circumstance. I don't think we will be hitting him early and often. If we're up, and he gets kind of desperate, I think we're going to crush him.
(01-20-2018, 02:34 PM)Darth Hoodie Wrote: [ -> ]Hi guys,
Best of luck to all of you Jags fans. It is definitely fun to have your team in it this late in the season. We up here in New England have been spoiled. I for one am quite nervous about this game. I think you guys match up very well with us. I think a lot of people get caught up in average statistics and other stuff, but ultimately it's about specific match ups.
As someone who hasn't watched a ton of Jaguars games this year, I have a question regarding your pass rush. You obviously have talented guys at all levels, and I believe I'm right in saying that you tend not to blitz too much, which makes you dangerous if you get pressure with just 4. I was looking through the impressive sack stats on you guys and was struck by the fact that 28 of your 55 regular season sacks came against 2 teams, the Texans and the Colts. I'm really not trying to cherry pick, but that is quite incredible. The remaining 12 games you guys had 27 sacks, or 2.25 per game. That rate is actually slightly below average for the league. So real question, as you guys have watched throughout the year, do feel the pass rush is consistent? I get that it's good, I'm not challenge that. I'm just wondering if you guys feel like it shows up every game.
Good luck to all of you tomorrow. Nothing like these games!
Much of the variance had to do with the defensive game plan. If the opposing team is strong in the running game, the defense was set to stop the run. Plus, like others have said, the sack numbers don't tell the whole story. There were plenty of plays where the QB was rushed and made poor throws. There were many QB pressures. And there were many stripped balls which lead to turnovers.
It will be interesting tomorrow. Historically speaking, Brady doesn't do nearly as well when he gets hit a few times. He gets rattled and starts hearing footsteps. Whether that happens tomorrow is yet to be seen.
(01-20-2018, 03:20 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2018, 03:08 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]I think the other posters addressed most of the reasons why we consider our pass rush succesful. I know most fans feel this way, but I’ve never seen lineman held like Malik Jackson and Yannick Ngakoue are held. Generally, a certain degree of holding happens on every play. It just seems that, because we’re so successful, they allow opposing teams to get away with some of the less egregious holds.
Maybe it’s my teal-colored glasses.
It's not.
The steelers got away with murder holding Campbell and Ngakoue. No reason to think the pats won't do the same.
It has been a theme all year. There are a ton of obvious ones on tv the refs choose to ignore. There has probably been 50 or so blatant, egregious holds ignored this year, and i am not exaggerating. There are consistently 3-5 a game missed, not counting the nit picky holds. We have gotten away with some on the offense too though. Its a mix of bad officiating and "letting them play" imo. Still sucks.
(01-21-2018, 02:15 AM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2018, 03:20 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]It's not.
The steelers got away with murder holding Campbell and Ngakoue. No reason to think the pats won't do the same.
It has been a theme all year. There are a ton of obvious ones on tv the refs choose to ignore. There has probably been 50 or so blatant, egregious holds ignored this year, and i am not exaggerating. There are consistently 3-5 a game missed, not counting the nit picky holds. We have gotten away with some on the offense too though. Its a mix of bad officiating and "letting them play" imo. Still sucks.
Head locks should always be called